Episode 65 Zooming In on Experiential Learning with Luke Liddle

Resources/Links

Luke’s Twitter

Independent Schools Cultural Alliance (ISCA) Website

ISCA Instagram

Transcript

Melissa Milner 0:09

Welcome to The Teacher As... podcast. I'm your host Melissa Milner, a teacher who is painfully curious and very easily inspired. In this third season, I explore my interests as the main focus of the episodes. If you have listened to seasons one and two, first of all, thank you. Second of all, this season will be a little different. It will still be centered around interesting topics and their connections to education. I'll continue to have interview episodes, maybe a top 10 episode here and there since they are very popular. But also some episodes will be just me sharing about a topic. Similar to my Podcasting With Students episodes from Season Two. New episodes come out every other week. If you enjoy the podcast, please share it with anyone you think would benefit from listening. It really helps the podcast grow. Thank you for supporting The Teacher As... I hope you enjoy Season Three.

Luke Liddle 1:07

Well, hi there. My name is Luke Liddle. I'm the director of the Independent Schools Cultural Alliance, or ISCA, for short. And what I do in my profession is I use utilize travel as an educational tool. And I really believe in the power of travel as an educational tool in the way that we can help our students learn, but learn by seeing, by exploring, by feeling new places and new topics rather than solely learning in a classroom. So our specialism is bringing school groups from all over the world to the UK for a three week program in July every year. And when they're with us, the students will visit lots of places, they will learn a lot about British history and culture, but not in the classroom. But by seeing and exploring the places that we are visiting. I suppose for me, the most important part of what we do though, is it's it's more broader than just learning about history or learning about British culture. It's about broadening our horizons. So we have students from all over the world coming together at the same time. So for me, the very best part of, of the type of travel that we're fortunate to be involved in, is having students learn about other cultures from around the globe. And of course, also being able to share their own culture, because sometimes we don't get enough opportunity to share our own culture with those who don't understand it. And I think, you know, if there's one thing I wish all of our students could could have for the future is, is a cultural understanding. I think now more than ever, that's, that's so important.

Melissa Milner 2:43

That's so amazing. I'm sure educators listening right now want to know, a lot more details. So. So I think what you said was that students from all over the world come to the UK. Is that a true statement?

Luke Liddle 2:58

That's absolutely right. Yeah. So we work with, with partner schools around the world. And those schools are, they apply to be part of the Independent Schools Cultural Alliance, and then they're allowed to promote this three week program to their middle school, forgive me, I should have said middle school students. And then a teacher from each school brings a delegation of students to the UK in July each year. But once we're there, we really work as one, one school. So this year, for example, we have 23 schools coming to the UK in July. And that makes up a total of 185 students. So whilst we're in the UK, we're effectively one school over 185 for the three weeks, learning about British history and culture, but learning about each other. You know, that's the main thing.

Melissa Milner 3:45

Do you do a lot of like, getting to know you team building things? Do you send them off into separate little groups? Or do you stay together when you're traveling and that you set up little cohorts? How does that even work?

Luke Liddle 3:57

Yeah, no, it's a really, really good question. I think, you know, the beauty of the program is is cultural difference. And the most challenging thing is cultural difference. And we want to, to make sure everyone's integrated together so we have ever seen Harry Potter?

Melissa Milner 4:13

Yes.

Luke Liddle 4:14

Of course... or read it more importantly. So a bit like in Harry Potter, you have the four houses. When we are in England, we have four houses for boarding houses, and each student is assigned to one of those houses. And whilst we keep the school groups together, they will be intermixed with other students from other schools. So they're already mixing in the boardinghouse. So their bedroom, everyone has their own bedroom, but their bedroom might be next to somebody from Argentina or Australia or Peru. So they're mixed in the houses and also all of our students. The one thing they all have to have is they do have to have a fluency in English.

Melissa Milner 4:15

Ah, okay, that helps.

Luke Liddle 4:15

Absolutely. So although Argentinian, Peruvian, French, Spanish is their first language or Portuguese in Brazil, etc, we use something called the language of inclusion. And this was created actually, by the former head of an international school in Brazil, who said to us, you need to use this phrase, language of inclusion, use it from the start. And the beauty of three weeks is you have time at the start to implement how you want to run things. So we always say language of inclusion, language inclusion, and the students, they're so malleable at that middle school age, that very quickly, everyone's talking in English, and you don't necessarily need to force it, you need to facilitate it. So whether it's the pool table in the boarding house, or the table tennis table, they just slowly start to get to know each other. Of course, we do two activities at the start team building games, and so on, just to try and get that interaction started. But what we tend to find is, we set up the situation, and the students do tend to find their way. And that's not to say, of course, that we don't encourage them along the way, if that makes sense.

Melissa Milner 6:04

Right. Right. Wow. To be a, you know, as a teacher, like, as a teacher, it's overwhelming. You know, I have always taught elementary, but I know that middle school and high school, do these trips all over the place. And it's always seemed overwhelming to me, just the logistics of it all. So... and I'm sure with COVID I mean, yikes, yikes, yikes, yikes. So, you know, how do you plan where you're gonna go? Like, what are your decisions behind what you're going to teach and show the kids?

Luke Liddle 6:40

Yeah, so we start from the basis of we're in the UK for three weeks. And to achieve those two goals, which is introduced them to British history and culture, and allow them to get to know global cultures. Those are our two key objectives. So to achieve that, we work on a three day cycle for the three weeks. So day one, and day two, we go off, we leave our school, which is in the countryside in Surrey, southwest of London, it's a 200 acre campus is beautiful. We leave there and we go and see various different sites. And every third day we stay at the campus. And that's when they have time to make these interactions with with students from around the world. So in terms of where we decide to go on those two days, of course, you know, we do have to hit the big sites. So if you think about if I asked to what's the first thing you think of when I say England, I'm not sure what you would say.

Melissa Milner 7:33

There's a couple things. There's the you know, the Big Ben, and there's those soldiers that have to stay, Buckingham Palace, I believe.

Luke Liddle 7:40

Yeah, that's right. That's right. Yeah. So what exactly so So Big Ben? Interesting fact is, most people have never seen Big Ben. Big Ben is actually the name of the bell inside the clocktower. Well, I mean, I think that's interesting. But then I'm the history tour guide. So we go to the House of Parliament, and one of the things that we're allowed to do is we're actually allowed to go inside the House of Parliament. So that's a good example. Don't just look and take a picture from the outside that they go inside, they stand where the Prime Minister stands, whoever that is, at the time changes quite a lot at the moment. And, and they, it kind of really brings it to life. And similarly, you mentioned that the royal connection, of course, the Queen, and the royal family, a huge part of British history. So we go to Windsor Castle, which is where the Queen lives, we see the the Yeoman Yeoman guards, which is the people you see standing very still upright. So we do all those things. And I suppose the obviously Shakespeare Shakespeare is a huge thing.

Melissa Milner 8:49

Stratford on Avon.

Luke Liddle 8:51

Absolutely. Right. Stratford upon Avon is the birthplace of William Shakespeare. And, you know, it depends depending on school, but a lot of the students will not have studied Shakespeare when they come to us at middle school, but they will be studying Shakespeare or certainly knowing about Shakespeare in high school, or even in college, and if they move on, on that route, so...

Melissa Milner 9:16

Right.

Luke Liddle 9:16

Yeah, we're going to Stratford upon Avon. And I don't know if you can picture this. So a kind of a midsummer's day in England, middle of July. Believe it or not, we do get some quite warm weather, sometimes. It doesn't rain all the time. And we all we all go into Stratford upon Avon. And one of our ethos is is if nobody thinks we're a group, we're doing our job, right. So we have one teacher for every four students. And when we are in these places, we obviously have a rough idea of where we're going. We go to Shakespeare's birthplace, and we go to the house where he wrote his plays, we go and see his grave at Holy Trinity Church, but we're student led. So we have the places we're going to visit, but the students in groups of three or more independently will lead their decisions about where they want to go. And, you know, I think them having that agency over their learning means they just pick up so much more from the trip. You know, it's not me saying like, we're going here, then we're going here. They say, right? Well, let's go to Shakespeare's birthplace first, because, you know, we really want to see that and that was the start of his life. So that's the start of our day, then we're going to go into this cafe, which is very quaint in English, that's something a bit different. And then we're going to go and see the theatre in Stratford and then finish off with his graveyard, for example, they might make that decision. And it just brings it to life, you know,

Melissa Milner 10:43

That's...oh okay. So that's a wonderful tip, I think for any field trip is if you can get enough parent chaperones and get enough so that you have those smaller groups, let's say you're going to the zoo, those kids can say, hey, we want to see the lions first. But the other group wants to see, you know, the orangutans first, right, or, you know, see the chimpanzees so that that little bit of voice and choice, I think is such a wonderful idea if you can get enough chaperones to go with those smaller groups. What a great tip.

Luke Liddle 11:13

Absolutely. I mean, I love that idea of voice and choice. I mean, I think one of the failures we sometimes have as educators with domestic trips, particularly is there's this idea that it's a day away from school, they're going somewhere new, and we just focus on the broader, what ratio do we need, rather than what ratio would give the students the best experience?

Melissa Milner 11:35

Yes.

Luke Liddle 11:36

Because if you're asking parents in a, you know, to contribute towards the cost of a trip, and it doesn't matter, whether it's going 10 minutes down the road, to an art gallery, or a zoo, you know, you want to make sure I believe that that's the most fullest experience they can have. So, you know, when I do domestic trips, and help out with schools, I know in the UK, I'm always amazed that we have one adult for every 15 students, because, okay, we can keep them safe. But they're not, you're not going to let them go off on their own. Because the beauty of letting go off in groups of three or more. And usually, they're groups of four or five, six is essentially a teacher can shadow. And you know, you don't need to give them complete freedom. You need to give them the the feeling that they have independence, they have control, they have agency.

Melissa Milner 12:24

Yeah.

Luke Liddle 12:25

So I suppose that would be a tip, if you can be fortunate enough to get get more leaders on trips, whether they're local or international, it's really wonderful, because it's slightly easier locally, because you don't have the big costs of taking additional leaders. I just think it really improves the whole experience for everybody.

Melissa Milner 12:43

Yeah, I think that that's a biggie, you know, I've been teaching a long time. I've been on a lot of field trips. And I agree, when we've had more chaperones and been able to have those smaller groups, you can tell the students are much more energized, and they're getting to go and spend time for the amounts of time they spend at one thing compared to another thing is up to that small group, instead of everybody and the teacher decides when we move on, you know, Plymouth Plantation, like all these places, are really those smaller groups. I think that's, that is really the ticket. That's such a great tip. Yeah.

Luke Liddle 13:21

Absolutely. You know, the, we're very fortunate that the teachers who accompany the trip, normally the teachers are fighting over who wants to join the trip, as you can imagine, because for the teachers, it's, it's a free three week trip to the UK where, yes, they're going to see all these places, but they're also going to be part of a global community of teachers. Obviously, you know, a Peruvian teacher, an Australian teacher, Japanese teacher, they all bring different pedagogies of how they approach education. So that's interesting for a teacher, you know, but also, it's, it's, I think, I think it's just really nice for them to be able to lead the students in that way on one of these teachers who was the head of the British school at one of the in one of the cities we work in, in South America, he was saying, in a classroom, if you have 2025 students of any age, in a classroom, you don't teach them all the same way. You know, that's a very sort of archaic way of thinking about teaching. You never do that. So why when we do trips, do we often try and deliver the same trip for everybody? And that really struck me as a really, really struck home thinking, Yeah, of course, don't teach everyone in the same way. So why should we expect everyone to get the same out of a trip to the zoo by following the same itinerary so I really that I think that's a great message, as you say, to to really try and personalize it as much as possible. Of course, finances are an issue with that. But one top tip is if you speak, I've always found if you speak to the sites directly and say, I know you only give one teacher place for every 12 students, but you know, we have a group of students who like to learn a certain way, please, can we bring another teacher? They will always say, yes, we've never had them say no. Okay. You know, of course it isn't. It's not about it's not about making something up, but it's just about, at the end of the day, if you're a zoo, or the House of Parliament or Buckingham Palace, you're very happy for young people to be enjoying and engaging with these places, but you want them under control. So, you know, it's, it's, it's a little tip that someone told me and it's always been helpful.

Melissa Milner 15:31

Okay, that's really good to know, because we have a zoo trip coming up at the end of the year. And hopefully, if COVID is under control we'll actually be able to go to the zoo, because it last year, it was a remote thing, where they just they did a zoom thing, and it's just, it's just not the same. But also, you know, just having the kids there. And, again, being able I just, I think that, you know, voice and choice is important anywhere, but like you just said it's almost even differentiation.

Luke Liddle 15:59

Yeah, exactly. To use to use one more example, which which might prove helpful, in in this sense, just on that topic is, you know, when we go to the Tower of London, so I forgive me, I didn't ask have you? Have you been to London?

Melissa Milner 16:14

I have not, I have not.

Luke Liddle 16:16

Really? Wow! This is very exciting that I feel like I'm flying the British flag of tourism. Well, listen, you must, you must come. And if you come in July, you're very welcome to join us it would be because we often have teachers who are not part of an official group, but come and join us for a couple of days as part of their learning. Obviously, only if they're in the UK, it's a bit far to go for Professional Development Day, I think that would be good. So the Tower of London and Tower of London was was constructed in 1067 by William the Conqueror, who was basically the start of our modern monarchy, after the Norman invasion. So Tower of London was constructed on the east side of the city. And it so many things have happened there in the last 1000 years. Now we take the students there, because it's a key site. And it's quite, it's one of those postcard sites, if you'd like to go to England, you really should go and see the Tower of London. But you could spend, you know, this goes, because this is probably the same in many places you might visit domestically or internationally, you could spend three days there, you know, we have, we have three hours. So what we do is, is we always, and this is another key thing, we always introduced concepts beforehand. So we give the students enough information to make an informed decision about where they want to explore. So the Tower of London, for example, has the crown jewels. So the Queen's crown is kept at the Tower of London. And you know, for the students to be able to see the real crown jewels and not a replica. But the real thing's just just the other side of admittedly very thick glass is amazing. But they might not be interested in that they might be more interested in the dungeons because obviously it was a very famous prison. There's a sign on the wall, which says traitors gate, you know, those who come in, never come out. And it's that kind of more dark history. Henry the Eighth's second wife, Queen Anne Boleyn was beheaded at the Tower of London, you can see the spot where that happened. The...King Richard the Third, a very famous Shakespearean villain, he locked up his his nephews in the tower to become king and they found their skeletons 300 years later,

Melissa Milner 18:30

Is that the winter of our discontent? Is that...

Luke Liddle 18:32

Yes, Yes. Made glorious summer by this sun of York. Yeah. Well, there you go. Well, I mean, it's, you know, you can't possibly go to all those places, but you students decide. And I think that's, that's great. And that's probably why they learned so much.

Melissa Milner 18:48

I have a question about that. Because again, I'm, you know, you're talking about this amazing place in London, I'm talking about, you know, the zoo, but it's the same concept, would you I mean, I'm just starting to think about this, would you give them the layout of the zoo, for instance, and have them in the groups that they're going to be in for the trip? And sort of make a plan of where the group wants to go first? Or do you wait you they learn about the different areas, but then you wait till they get there and spontaneously, they decide?

Luke Liddle 19:17

So one of the interesting things about the three weeks is the approach we take in week one is very different to week three, because they've got to know each other and they found people with like minded interests from other schools in week one. We we briefed them beforehand, bit like you said, not quite with a map, but we briefed them on the places they want to see. And we encourage them to speak to their friends about what they're most interested in and get themselves into groups.

Melissa Milner 19:42

Oh, okay, so then their interest groups... gotcha.

Luke Liddle 19:45

I mean, interest groups and then of course, as a teacher you go hang on a minute. There's a group that we're not quite sure about because obviously if you've got to think about safety, and you know your timekeeping as well.

Melissa Milner 19:58

Teacher discretion, right.

Luke Liddle 19:59

Exactly. But then again, if you have a group that you're slightly worried about, you just follow them closer, you see someone is definitely following that group. And so they choose their interest groups, and then away they go. But also, it's quite nice when you don't do that, and you split them randomly because they've got to collaborate. They've got to respect each other's interests.

Melissa Milner 20:20

Yeah.

Luke Liddle 20:21

I think with the example of a zoo, you know, if they, if some students were particularly interested, you know, in sub Saharan animals, and some people were interested in most of what's going on in Oceania, some people were more interested about American, like domestic animals, then they could choose their topic that they're interested in, and they could really focus on that area, maybe there's slightly more interactive things they could do on that trip, whether it's close encounters, or ensuring that, you know, a lot of the places at the zoo will have certain feeding times certain talks at certain times of the day on certain animals.

Melissa Milner 20:59

Exactly, yeah.

Luke Liddle 21:00

And then, and then, you know, you're allowing them to really focus and enjoy what what they, they a deep dive really into what they're interested in.

Melissa Milner 21:11

So for instance, we teach, you know, animal adaptations. So wherever they go at that zoo trip, they've learned about that. And you would hope that they can apply that knowledge to any of the learnings and any of the animals they see, you know, or, you know, they read the placard, and it talks about adaptations, you know, you hope that comes through. But sometimes it's not about a learning goal. It's about just experiencing, and that's something... Yeah, because you know, it, yes, it will help with the learning goal. But it's also let's just understand animals and appreciate animals. And as years go by, I have more and more kids who are angry at zoos. Well, that enclosure isn't, you know, that enclosure isn't big enough for a tiger?

Luke Liddle 22:00

Absolutely.

Melissa Milner 22:01

You know, you might have a group that's actually interested in investigating the zoo for how their enclosures are being fair to the animals, like, who knows what the interests would be? I have, I have very much, uh, you know, some strong, opinionated kids this year, and I totally could see a group just focusing on you know, you know, this is not fair to animals kind of thing.

Luke Liddle 22:25

Absolutely. And that's, that's something that we always have to change that we in our approach of how, you know, making sure everything we see is kind of up to date. And it might be a challenge to explain to the people who are who are running the zoo, that that's what that group are going to go and do. But I'm sure it could be adjusted.

Melissa Milner 22:44

Wow. So I mean, I already have so much here I have, you know, having those smaller groups, so that there's more choice. And, and also, sort of, you know, I think all teachers give the concepts before the field trip. So that's not necessarily new. But the idea of having them sort of discuss of what they've learned, what are they most interested in for this field trip? And grouping them by interest I think is such a wonderful idea.

Luke Liddle 23:17

Yeah. And it's that it's that, as you say, introducing concepts first, but one of the things we're fortunate to be able to do, and I know, but I think this is still possible in the regular school timetable. But it depends on on obviously, time constraints, because, you know, everything's possible if we had an infinite amount of time. You know, we one of the philosophies we have is no classrooms for three weeks, not just because it's the summer, and for most of the students, although not all from around the world, it is their holidays, some of the students come in term time. So although we have to put academic learning at the heart of what we do, we do it in, in a very experiential way. So if I may share one example. The HMS Victory ship is a very famous, sort of old old warship, it's like, a sailing ship that's more important than the United Kingdom, and it's where Lord Nelson was killed when he was directing the Battle of Trafalgar in the Napoleonic Wars 200 years ago. Now, that topic, whether you're an enthusiast of maritime history enthusiast or not, and most students will not be that can be pretty dry. So before we do it, what we do is we, we assign the students, we always work in groups of 30 or less, but with this, we have 30 students, and we assigned 20 of them to the French and the Spanish combined fleet of Napoleon. And we assigned 10 of them to the British fleet, which is about the ratio of the ships in the battle. Of course, sailing ships can't go when they want, they have to walk that sort of travel in a certain direction with the winds. So we give them a we kind of mark out a space on the playing field of where they can travel and and of course, the way those if you've seen Pirates of the Caribbean or Master and Commander or any of those films, of course, the way you win a battle at sea is with cannons. Yes, of course, we're not going to give them like that. But we thought, well, what can we what can we do that will kind of something they don't want to get, you know, get hit by effectively, but something that won't hurt them of which is obviously incredibly important. So the idea was created that will give them water balloons to simulate cannon fire.

Melissa Milner 25:30

Oh, yeah.

Luke Liddle 25:31

But in the battle, one of the reasons that the smaller British navy won is they were fighting their cannons every three minutes, whereas the Napoleon's fleet was sort of every six, seven minutes. So those on the British fleet had more water balloons than the others. And then we started the battle, we sort of walked forward in formation, of course, once you go forwards, you can't go back, water balloons flying everywhere. Okay, it's a lot of fun. But we were amazed at how much they learned from that. Because the following day that we went around the ship, they were asking, asking the guides, questions and going into detail. And the guides were so astonished that they actually sent us a letter, which I keep in my office. And it says, you know, we have school groups all the time, we have never seen an international school group, because obviously, these are not people who have any particular affiliation to the British Navy and British direct line of British history know so much information. So, you know, I think as always, by making things fun and interactive, and it can really work, but, ya know, certainly when we're teaching, the day where we do our, our water balloon reenactment of the Battle of Trafalgar is I know, for me and Michael, who you know, it's one of our highlights.

Melissa Milner 26:47

Yes. And it's so interesting, because, you know, simulations and role playing, and all that is so great. Except, and this was a good case of using a simulation. But that can be tricky. Because you're putting, you know, depending on what part of history you're doing, I think simulations can actually be actually harmful for kids. You know, if you're talking about masters and slave, and you're, you know, you don't simulate that. But this is a perfect example of, you know, when a simulation works beautifully, clearly. And I mean, water balloons Come on, right?

Luke Liddle 27:25

Yeah, exactly. I think you're exactly right. It has to, it only really works when there's, there's no big power differential between the two, the two actors, if that makes sense, because you don't be getting involved in any of that. But but at the same time, one of the really exciting things about history at the moment, is is how we reflect on, on the kind of very Western centric, white centric view of history we have. And it's a very exciting time to be to be involved. Because context is obviously incredibly important. I don't think you'd find any historian that thinks context isn't vital. But, you know, allowing students to question I think, is so valuable, like with your example, with going to the zoo? You know, I'm not sure would we have had a group of students very keen to talk about how this is, this is not right, these pens are too small, these enclosures that are not right, would we have had that 20 years ago? I mean, that's just one example. But, you know, it's a really exciting time to be doing these things. And and especially in a, in a global environment, you know, when we go to Stonehenge.

Melissa Milner 28:31

Oh, wow.

Luke Liddle 28:32

We have some Argentinian, you know, 5000 years old, nobody knows why it's there. But I'll never forget and Argentinian boy, turning to his friend from Australia, who they just met, you know, a couple of weeks before, saying, Well, this is just like Moai... the Moia heads on Easter Island, you know, and the Australian boy, what are you talking about? What's that? You know, that's that's just as impressive if not more impressive than Stonehenge. But Stonehenge dominates the discourse.

Melissa Milner 28:32

Right.

Luke Liddle 28:32

To have that challenged, I think is, you know, I just personally believe life can only be enriched by having as many different cultures as possible. You know, involved.

Melissa Milner 29:11

That's such a good point. When you knew you were gonna come on to do this chat with me, were there certain things that you were like, oh have to make sure to say this? Or who I have these top tips for traveling with students? Or was there anything that just really stood out to you before we finish up?

Luke Liddle 29:30

I think we've we've we've had a really a really in depth chat and then covered many of the topics that the kind of things that I was thinking of, I suppose I suppose for us, it's all about that seeing a trip and obviously our trip is three weeks, so it has to have a lot of preparation. But even with with day trips, see the whole thing as a process and don't see it as a standalone trip because you know doing a trip, whether it's to the zoo or to an art gallery, or to another country in another culture, you know, it is one of the things that certainly for me, when I think back to my time at school, it's the things you really remember. And students really value. So as teachers and educators, I think it's really important we think about the whole process. So what are we going to learn by seeing? How do we facilitate that learning? Can we give the students control and agency over their learning? Can we be student led? Does that mean we need more teachers and obviously introducing concepts first. I think I think they're the most important things when you're trying to achieve anything, which is all about experience, anything experiential learning, which which covers anything outside, outside the conventional kind of classroom environment, I just think is so valuable. And just by doing a little bit more work on the on the on the way groups are mixed, I know, it's teachers, teachers, time is the most valuable thing. And it's, you know, we all wish we had more time, but, you know, by by, by sort of thinking of the secondary advantages of a trip, you know, maybe a couple of students who didn't really know each other maybe didn't get on, but they can, they can bond over a shared interest in, you know, that the tigers at the zoo, or, you know, Shakespeare or something like that. Making sure that every student on the trip has a chance to explore their interests, you know, not using that one size fits all approach. We wouldn't teach 30 kids the same way in a classroom, right, shouldn't expect 30 kids to have a good experience with a standard trip. We need to make sure we tailor it as much as possible. I think that would be my... y top tip. I mean, we're very fortunate to be able to sort of focus really on just, you know, it's slightly different. But essentially delivering field trips is what we do. And so, you know, when you spend all your days of the year focusing on that, you really learn some interesting things. And, and I would also say, for us having a diversity of thought on our team, we have a board who help us and they are they're people who almost all have been involved with middle school students, but they are from every corner of the globe. Because it's that whole ethos, what works for a student from Boston won't work necessarily work for students from Los Angeles, let alone a student from Sydney. You know, so it's all about that diversity.

Melissa Milner 32:23

That's wonderful. So where can people get more information about ISCA, or get in touch with you?

Luke Liddle 32:30

Absolutely. So if they want a bit more information about ISCA, I-S-C-A, they can go on to iscaschools.com. That's our website. And there's a contact button there, which comes straight through to me if they want to contact. So that would probably be the best way. And you know, we have a lot of people contact who, you know, don't want to do the two or three week program with their school, but just want a bit of a few a few thoughts on how they might be able to run their own trips. And we're always happy to provide that as well. So it's not just, you know, obviously, we're always delighted to welcome new new groups, particularly from the USA because it's slightly underrepresented in our program. You know, we in the last week, ISCA, I-S-C-A has run for 40 years, this is our 40th year, and in the last 10 years, every school from the USA who's been part of our program has come back every year or every other year, which is wonderful, because obviously they're getting value.

Melissa Milner 33:30

Yeah.

Luke Liddle 33:30

But we're always looking for new new schools to give their students the opportunity. And we're very much still school lead and we tailor but it just takes the pressure off schools. I mean, there's so much for teachers to do at the moment, having somebody organize the trips, but also still be able to tailor to your particular students I think is really valuable. So yeah, please do visit the website, or ISCA, isca_schools on Instagram, you'll see some of the kind of fun online stuff that's that's been happening. Obviously, with the pandemic, we were able to run our first post pandemic trip to Scotland, just after Christmas, we welcomed 25 students from the USA and Argentina, to Scotland in the middle of the Omicron wave, but we kept everybody safe.

Melissa Milner 34:16

Wow.

Luke Liddle 34:16

I mean, you could do a whole, you could do a whole other podcast on keeping kids safe in a pandemic.

Melissa Milner 34:21

Right.

Luke Liddle 34:22

And what it taught me is, you know, we obviously all you know, health and the well being of everyone is number one priority, but there is also a real cost of not not trying and not doing these trips, you know, so it's not a zero sum game by just not running, you know, outside of our safe environment. So, yeah, it was super, you know, a lot of fun. And we're looking forward to July this year when when we welcome...welcome our schools back to the UK.

Melissa Milner 34:49

Wonderful. Is there anything else you want to say before I ask the last question?

Luke Liddle 34:54

No, not not. So I just want to say, you know, thank you so much for for having me on. And then for those listening, thank you for, for joining. And yeah, hope I hope it was informative,

Melissa Milner 35:06

Of course. So the last question is, it might seem kind of strange, but it's something that I love. What is your favorite movie? And why?

Luke Liddle 35:15

Oh, that's a fantastic question. I suppose it depends on the artist have a, have a think about this, because, you know, actually, I was thinking, Where am I gonna go with this? And then the answer came to me straight away, and I don't think it will be something you expect. But a movie that I think kind of has British values at its heart and has the values that I really hope that we and not just as our as ISCA, but also as me personally, we, we kind of want to show and I would love my children to have these values is Paddington. Have you seen Paddington?

Melissa Milner 35:54

Oh, those are the sweetest movies.

Luke Liddle 35:57

It's just it's a wonderful movie. It's... It's uplifting, good for the whole family. And I mean, at its core, it's about friendship, courage, you know, acceptance, trying new things, being... being an outsider in a new environment, but quickly becoming an insider. I think it's, it's more or less everything we've talked about.

Melissa Milner 36:17

Yeah, it is. Actually. That's a really good point. Yeah.

Luke Liddle 36:21

I mean, you know, I'm sure if any friends are listening, there'll be thinking why hasn't he said Harry Potter. But no, Paddington. Paddington is the... is the answer. What a good question. I might... I might start asking that myself.

Melissa Milner 36:33

Yeah, it tells... it tells a lot about somebody who really, you learn a lot about somebody from their favorite movie or movies.

Luke Liddle 36:40

Yeah, you must have great answers on that.

Luke Liddle 36:43

Oh, yeah, definitely. Alright, so thank you again. I appreciate you all the way over across the sea, comin' on to talk to me this morning.

Luke Liddle 36:52

Oh, thank you so much for having me. It's been wonderful.

Melissa Milner 36:55

For my blog, transcripts of this episode, and links to any resources mentioned, visit my website at www.theteacheras.com. You can reach me on Twitter and Instagram @melissabmilner. And I hope you check out The Teacher As... Facebook page for episode updates. Thanks for listening. And that's a wrap.