Ep. 98: Zooming In on Curriculum Collaboration with Heather Leonard and Erin Burchill
Heather Leonard: Curriculum Coordinator
How to reach Heather:
heatherleafleonard@gmail.com
LeonardH@mersd.org
Twitter/X: @HleafLeonard
Erin Burchill: K-8 Humanities Coordinator
How to reach Erin:
erin.burchill@gmail.com
erin.burchill@reading.k12.ma.us
Transcript:
Melissa Milner 0:09
Welcome to The Teacher As... podcast. I'm your host Melissa Milner, a teacher who is painfully curious and very easily inspired. This podcast is ever changing and I hope with each season, you find episodes that speak to you in your work as an educator. This is the fifth season of The Teacher As... and it's exciting to see the growth in how many educators are listening. Episodes are released every other week. If you enjoy The Teacher As... please rate it on Apple podcasts and leave a review. It helps the podcast reach more educators. Thanks for listening.
Heather Leonard 0:41
Hi, I'm Heather Leonard. I am the Director of Curriculum and Instruction for the Manchester Essex Regional School District and formerly was the STEM curriculum coordinator for the Reading Public Schools in Reading for the previous 10 years, so in a new job and excited about, you know, new challenges and new creativity but love to the Reading folks who I miss.
Melissa Milner 1:06
And this is Massachusetts, Massachusetts.
Heather Leonard 1:08
Sorry about that. That's right. So my role as the Director of Curriculum and Instructional Technology is really to provide support and structures that we work within with all things curriculum. So what our curriculum resources, thinking about professional learning, assessment, our instructional practices, and how we can best support all learners in our classroom. And sort of selfishly, I see, my job is to be the person who removes the barriers so that our teachers can do the incredible work they do. So they make sure they have the tools, the training the supports, to do that incredible work and the magic they do in their classrooms. But myself, I'm like a forever learner. I love school. I love learning. I love new adventures. And I'm a mom to two awesome middle school kids and love reading and gardening. So there we go. That's me.
Melissa Milner 1:57
Wonderful, wonderful. And Erin?
Erin Burchill 2:00
I am Erin Burchill. So I am the K-8 Humanities curriculum coordinator in Reading Public Schools. Prior to that, I was a consultant for five years with a company called School Works. I was an assistant principal and a literacy coach in Chelsea in a middle school and taught elementary school in both North Reading and Reading. Of course, I've actually taught every grade 1 to 12, because I used to teach in a high school credit recovery program. But I'm in my second year in this position and reading and loving it, loving it. My job is basically all of the things Heather said, which is like making sure teachers and building leaders have the structures and supports that they need in terms of implementing previous curriculum, new curriculum, running curriculum reviews within the district, just to make sure we're up to date on current research, current practice, all that kind of stuff. And like Heather said, I think like really making sure we remove the barriers for teachers so they can do what they do best, which is teach our kids.
Melissa Milner 2:59
Amazing.
Erin Burchill 2:59
Personally, I have a kindergartener who starts after Labor Day.
Melissa Milner 3:04
Oh.
Erin Burchill 3:05
No, but it's great. It's gonna be it's gonna be so great. He's ready for it. He's more ready, probably than we are. So that's good.
Melissa Milner 3:11
That's exciting. Wow.
Erin Burchill 3:13
Yeah.
Melissa Milner 3:14
So you both mentioned the removing barriers, so the teachers can do their jobs? Are you talking about planning the trainings for teachers for new curriculum? Are you talking about supplies? Go through that.
Erin Burchill 3:28
I would say yes. And yes, I think, I think first and foremost, making sure there's a really strong plan for professional support and professional learning, especially when you're learning a new curriculum. So you know, we've been going through ours with three to five we have it K-2 this year for literacy, and just making sure I'm like, sort of the go between between, like, whoever's running the professional development, be it me, be it someone else, and down to the to the school level. So I think that's like a number one, the most important just making sure folks feel like and know that they have the support in terms of their own learning and their own practice, and their own ability to like, be learners as we go through this and model that for kids. The really important part, same of building leaders, right, making sure building leaders have everything they need in terms of their own learning, because they don't know the new curriculum, either. So making sure they have that as well. And then like down to the nitty gritty of making sure everybody has like the tangible things that they need in terms of resources and materials in their classrooms.
Heather Leonard 4:26
Yeah, I would echo that. I think the barriers, it's what we hear from teachers, what are the things that get in the way of us supporting all of our learners, sometimes it's time. So how do we help folks really understand what those priorities are and where we can get, you know, the biggest supports, sometimes it's tools. So whether it's access to new curriculum, tools or resources, or it's a matter of like, meeting together to streamline what we have and have conversations, you know, some of the work that I was excited about when I first started in as a curriculum coordinator was we looked at the Science curriculum tools we had and we were realizing, huh, we have this but we're not consistently using it or we don't know how or when.
Melissa Milner 5:03
Right?
Heather Leonard 5:03
So. So sometimes it's really a chance just to what is the barrier? While there's inconsistencies, so maybe it's the chance to look and think what we need, I see a barrier, sometimes it's opportunities for collaboration. Do teachers get a chance to collaborate with each other? Is that cross buildings? Is it vertically? Is it with leaders? Is it with other colleagues in other districts? So I think there's that's a barrier for some folks is space and time to collaborate, because, frankly, I think that's where I know I myself learned so much is talking to peers and colleagues doing the work. Sometimes it's training and a training might be explicitly on a new tool, but sometimes it's like, this is what the current research is saying in the field, or this is what you know, exciting things are happening. Some of the some of the work that I'm currently really lit up about is the building thinking classrooms, research that's out there and mathematics right now, that's not a curriculum tool, but it's an approach. So you know, I think sometimes it's just that space that we have the luxury and the time to step out of some of the day to day routines. So our responsibility is making sure our teachers have access to what is the current field saying what are the resources out there, sort of wading through some of the noise. And so I think those those are some of the barriers that I I see it as my responsibility to remove and, you know, I say, teachers, but when I say teachers, I'm including everyone from, you know, our principals, to our classroom teachers, to our specialist, teachers, special educators, our para educators and teaching assistants, they all all the folks that are doing the work to teacher kids.
Melissa Milner 6:27
Yeah.
Heather Leonard 6:28
And and myself, you know,
Melissa Milner 6:29
So for principals listening, why would it be? And I mean, I know the answer, but I want you to, I want you guys to say why would it be important for principals to be familiar with the curriculum?
Erin Burchill 6:39
Go ahead, Heather.
Heather Leonard 6:42
As a recovering principal, myself, I also love it was an amazing job. And, you know, one of one of the, I think under celebrated roles and schools because I think they do incredible work for our school communities. Yeah, that being said, man, are they the lynchpin for a lot of work that happens. So at any given point, they're managing their budget, they're dealing with staffing needs, they're supporting a facility problem. They're supporting families are struggling students, they're dealing with schedules and logistics, enrollment, covering classes, if they need to be an engaging member of society, planning staff meetings, supporting school councils, PTOs, and also being instructional leaders. And so, you know, when we think about that, the role of the principal, as an instructional leader and supporting us, as educators, as we think about our own craft, and our own practice, their great thought partners, you know, when they're coming in and visiting our classrooms, and you're having formal or informal evaluation, yeah, even looking for how do we were talking about and if we don't, as leaders stay current, on what both curricular resources and pedagogy says, but also with the field says, We're gonna miss that opportunity to to move our practice forward, collectively. So it can become a really exciting shared relationship with a leader and in teachers and buildings. But our principals are doing all of the grades, all the content areas, all the staffing plus managing all those other pieces. So that's, again, like our support for them. You know, even as teachers, you know, we often get to zoom in on our particular grade level or a particular content area, and that principals got to support all of it. So making sure they have those explicit tools, I think is really critical to support their work in moving the school forward too.
Erin Burchill 8:21
Yeah, I think to like thinking about at all the different levels in positions, getting all different perspectives about what's working, and what's not in the things that we need to do to make sure things are working in the best way possible for our teachers and our kids. Right. So like, even if it comes down to like, Hey, I'm having this PD day on this, and we need 78 subs. Well, that's not a realistic expectation, right for people. So making sure we're partnering with folks in terms of what's going to work. And what's the best option like for how we roll this out, to make sure everybody gets what they need?
Melissa Milner 8:52
Do you mean, like for the arc, how you had coaching sessions, but different schools?
Erin Burchill 8:56
Yeah.
Heather Leonard 8:57
And I think in the end to the principals have a perspective no one else has, they know their community deeply. They know their staff and their kids, and they get a chance to see that vertical experience within their buildings. So they're always providing an perspective and a viewpoint that no one else in the district has. And so them being part of that conversation about, you know, what that support looks like, and what's working and what what we need to do better. That's an irreplaceable perspective in in the work of schools.
Erin Burchill 9:24
Well, and then part of our role or Heather's previous role, slash now role and my role is getting the perspective of like, what does it look like across the district in just looking for patterns and trends, listening to as many people as we can getting feedback in as many ways as we can to make sure we're rolling things out. Or like not even rolling things out, but thinking about things in a new way if we have to. Just it's the it's the differing perspectives that the really cool part of this job in this role, for sure.
Melissa Milner 9:52
Very cool. I just want to mention this, I think it was you Heather with the new math curriculum, and there was a lot the The prepping the math centers and everything. Did you have help getting all those materials together?
Heather Leonard 10:05
Um...
Melissa Milner 10:06
She she put together math centers? Did you do it for all the schools? Because I mean, we got it.
Erin Burchill 10:12
We did it for all the schools
Melissa Milner 10:13
Like ready to go math centers from our curriculum... done.
Heather Leonard 10:18
I think the support came in the administration providing that fiscal support and folks in tea honestly, it was teachers saying like, we can't do this, because the amount I mean, honestly, it was that feedback from teachers saying this is important for us to be able to do this work that was like a small barrier. We can get tools in hands that let teachers focus on the good stuff. I mean, that's that's the job.
Melissa Milner 10:39
Did you prep that all yourself?
Heather Leonard 10:41
I mean...yeah.
Erin Burchill 10:42
She did. Yes, she did. She's not gonna say yes, but yes, she did.
Melissa Milner 10:46
So get some high school kids to come and help next time.
Heather Leonard 10:48
High School kids are pretty awesome.
Melissa Milner 10:52
That's impressive. But that was very appreciated. I don't know if you heard enough of the appreciation, but it was definitely appreciated. An era and everything you do, too. It's, I feel lucky to have had other and to still have you, Erin, if I'm not gonna do it now. But when you were working in the same district, you guys collaborated a lot. So can you discuss that collaboration?
Erin Burchill 11:14
I mean, so number one, this was this last year was my first year in this role. I've been in, you know, teaching roles. I've been in administrative roles. I've been in coaching roles, but this was my first time in this role. And, you know, you start on July one, and it's sort of like, no one's around like no teachers are, it's quiet. But it's like, what's happening? Heather, Heather, I mean, not just in July, but throughout the year, was really able to provide a scope of sort of what the job looked like, and what the different components and different pieces are, right in terms of professional development. And in terms of assessment, in terms of district meetings that we go to in terms of school based meetings in terms of workshop days, and like there are so many layers to it. And Heather was just the person, right, like my person to do that with. So there was that layer of mentorship that I took very seriously in terms of the role, but just the, the way she and I worked together was something that was invaluable to me, be it like planning workshops, or thinking through like, okay, like we have this PD session coming up, this is the feedback I got, I don't really know if it fits who's like what do you think I should do? Who do you think I should talk to, and being sort of a sounding board, even though we have completely different content areas, right? Because we're also K-8, right? So like, we're not just elementary. We're also working with the middle school and have different content areas in the middle school, too. So but I, my year with Heather was too short, and just completely invaluable. In my mind.
Heather Leonard 12:37
I feel the same way. And I think I want to emphasize that a big piece of you know, I think these roles, like we're like serving teachers, like if that's our job, and so a big piece we would sit down is like, you know, what's happening for you with your teachers are often if you're asking that if they're great teachers, I can't do that right now. So how do I make sure that we ease back? And how do we complement it? Or where are their natural organic overlap, that we can collaborate on behalf of teachers and students? And then where do we need to make sure that if we're saying this is your priority this year, that there's places we can pull back in other spots, so it's it's a bit of a dance, but that's just the work. I think the collaborative relationship is just really invaluable in, we would literally block off when we saw big projects come up, we were blocked off and be like an errand and how they're thinking day. Yeah, and we would just bring it all in. And sometimes something as small as I have to communicate this. Can you read through somebody who doesn't know it? And give me feedback about what makes sense or doesn't. And sometimes as big as like, wow, we this is what we heard feedback from our teachers, how can we plan our next thing to really reflect that teacher feedback and that need, and so we would really talk through things. And it was, it was that that helped me get better at my craft, especially because she was giving me feedback from somebody who sometimes you get too close to something you can't quite see it. Yes, she could give that perspective, both because she was coming from a different content area. But more importantly, she was bringing her own experiences her own expertise, her own style, and we don't have same size, we have complementary styles. So it just made me better. It really helped me think differently about approaching things that I just wouldn't the work wouldn't have moved in the way it did without her being that thought partner.
Melissa Milner 14:15
So you would encourage curriculum coordinators, even if one's math, you know, science, technology, the other that it's still valuable. And I love what you said about the planning because we we don't want you know, back to back, here's your PD. And the next day, here's your just that communication between the two of you is huge. Yeah.
Heather Leonard 14:34
I think especially because what we know is that we tend to be siloed in our own roles in school districts, right? Whether it's these are my kids in my classes here from self contained, this is my continent or my department. And but really our if we think about it, and flip it from that kid perspective, they are experiencing our classes vertically throughout their experience and across the day. And so it is our responsibility to frame ourselves in that student experience. And so if we only stay in our narrow lane We could really our students will feel that right, they'll feel that disjointedness. And so it's our responsibility in serving teachers, but also our students to make sure that that work is inherently connected and thoughtfully integrated. And complimentary.
Melissa Milner 15:12
You've done a very good job, both of you. Thanks.
Erin Burchill 15:16
I mean, like one of the other things like we had started to do, you know, once I had gotten my feet wet with this new curriculum that we're rolling out in elementary, and you know, Heather was already deep in the math, elementary game, we started, like really talking about the pedagogical shifts that teachers were being asked to make in terms of their practice, and their thinking about teaching and learning, and then how those sort of layered on top of one another and how they were similar. So that was really some great, deep learning to in terms of like, okay, like, what are we actually asking people?
Heather Leonard 15:43
And we, so we started to do classroom walkthroughs together, so we will go together? Yeah, she and I, together went into look at literacy, she and I went together to look at math. And so we were sort of seeing, and that's really where we saw, you know, I mean, that's the magic.
Erin Burchill 15:57
That's the overlap, right?
Heather Leonard 15:58
Who doesn't want to be in classrooms all day, we were able to see like, oh, in math class, when when students are when students are engaging in the warm up that feels like this when it relates to literacy. And so we learn from each other, but also, it helps us to really see, you know, that rich connection.
Erin Burchill 16:12
Like the connections between the different things that we were doing and asking teachers to do.
Melissa Milner 16:17
And both of you were in charge of the, the amazing Google folder?
Erin Burchill 16:23
The Google Classroom.
Melissa Milner 16:24
Yeah. Can you talk about that? Because all administrators should be doing that.
Erin Burchill 16:29
It's really just a place. Yeah...
Melissa Milner 16:30
We don't have to go through our email to find that thing that we needed to find. It was huge. So please talk about that.
Erin Burchill 16:37
Yeah, I mean, I think one of the things, one of the pieces in this role like is figuring out what communication works best for people. And I think like the answer to that is like different communication works best for different people. So some people need that email, right. So we make sure we send emails that are concise and clear. And they're like, here's where you go, we make sure we send out calendar invites. But where we like housed, the bulk of information was a Google Classroom site where we just would we had a literacy, science, math, social studies sections, and any updates would go on there. And then they'd be sent out to everyone, but also any materials from professional learning sessions that we had. With us, yep, pacing guides, everything on their assessment calendars.
Melissa Milner 17:15
I used to have to go through my files to find those stupid pacing guides. And now I just go on the Google Classroom.
Erin Burchill 17:23
They're on there.
Heather Leonard 17:24
And it helps us to so if you know if teachers are struggling or having difficulty, we can say did you start here? And then if if we're hearing that feedback that tells us we're missing something, we need to make sure that we're you know, so it helps us get better, too. And the more routine things can be, we're not wasting the energy and trying to figure out the technical stuff, we can lean into the stuff. That's that's the hard work. So making predictable systems. I think it serves everybody.
Melissa Milner 17:47
Yeah, that was huge. Everybody should do that. All curriculum coordinators should be doing that. Yeah, that was very helpful. What do you zooming in on right now, in your work, that might be new or challenging?
Heather Leonard 18:04
One of the you had mentioned we when we did collaborate, and I would actually want to turn it to present tense because we're still collaborating, we've already bounced ideas off of each other. And there's exciting work that's happening in Massachusetts with examining the new history and social studies, curriculum frameworks.
Melissa Milner 18:23
Finally.
Heather Leonard 18:25
And they're rolling out some access to open ed resources for folks to use with this curriculum tool. So we actually created a network cross districts and Erin's really taken the lead on this. So we'll be collaborating cross districts to inc to check out these new curriculum tools and in provide our teachers with a network of cross district collaborators. So that's a real live current practicing that we do and stay connected and collaborated around that work. So excited about that. As far as zooming in, I think, you know, being brand new to a role and brand new to a district. There's a lot, so read, but I would say I'm more thinking like that big landscape view and a sponge on that. I would say the zooming in part that I'm really thinking about is what are the conditions that I can support to make sure that, you know, as we're going through change processes, when we're in learning situations that the leaders and the teachers feel that those conditions are set up for those optimal sharing and collaboration spaces? What does it look like? Are we ensuring the right voices are at the table? What are the external influences whether it's, you know, external experts or research or data, but it's I'm really thinking about the conditions that we consider when when we're going through the process of schools, right. And whether it's a meeting that's a standing meeting, or it's a professional development, or it's a sort of ongoing routine, I'm really trying to think about what what are those components that I'm responsible for that if not attended to, can distract from or take away from the work and how do I make sure I am intentionally planning for those so that it helps serve everyone at the table and that's really become something that I think over the last year it's really come to light that there were there are conditions that it might not be the work, it might not be the work itself, but it's the the details or the other external influences that can detract from the good work if not attended to. So that's for me and sort of collectively, that what I'm sort of professionally curious about, and really trying to understand better. And I and I don't think it's like one universal set, I think it's customized to who you're working with and what the team is and what the work is. But that's a piece that I'm really trying to be be attending to, and thoughtful about, as I move forward in my role, and just I think, in general, I think in life and in relationships to to be thoughtful about so yeah.
Melissa Milner 20:41
Yeah. And you also mentioned having to learn the high school piece.
Heather Leonard 20:44
Yes, yeah, I'm so excited about this role that I get a chance to really look at that fuller vertical experience of our students that pre K through 12 class, and also really, across the power of that cross content. So, you know, it'll be new for me to be thinking about things like world language or to bethinking about, you know, what does it mean in art class? And how does that that integrate into our work? So, I'm just so excited. You know, I mentioned before, I am a learner, so I am sort of selfishly, so thrilled to be learning so much from so many new people. Yeah.
Melissa Milner 21:16
Excellent and Erin.
Erin Burchill 21:17
Um, so I think for me, like zooming in, we're rolling out like this new curriculum in K-2 this year. So paying a lot of attention to how that's going while still making sure our 3-5 teachers are supported in the ways that they need to, and that they get to dig in a little bit deeper and work more closely together across schools. But I think the big thing for me this year is like really communication loops, right? And like making sure I'm getting to hear feedback from everybody, like all different perspectives, and sharing that feedback out and that communication out a big part of that is my is that implementation team that I run, which is made up of like teachers, K-5, and having them like really think about in their schools, how are we getting feedback from our school, how we bring it back to the team? How am I getting feedback from leaders, bringing that back to the team, and then bringing it to our PD providers or workshop days or anything like that in terms of my planning, but that's, I'm thinking a lot about systems for that and structures that will hold that.
Melissa Milner 22:12
And is there a new Heather?
Erin Burchill 22:15
There is.
Melissa Milner 22:15
Okay. Yeah, have you been able... What's her name?
Erin Burchill 22:18
Marianne Lynn, is her name.
Melissa Milner 22:20
Okay. And have you ever have you been able to meet? start collaborating?
Erin Burchill 22:24
Yeah, for sure. We definitely have.
Melissa Milner 22:26
Great.
Erin Burchill 22:27
She's a Reading veteran teacher. She's a former department science head at the high school. And she's She's fabulous.
Heather Leonard 22:34
She's a rock star.
Melissa Milner 22:35
Yeah. That's great.
Erin Burchill 22:37
Yeah.
Melissa Milner 22:38
I was wondering about that.
Erin Burchill 22:40
Yeah, there is.
Melissa Milner 22:41
Like we need a new Heather.
Heather Leonard 22:44
She's going to be awesome. You're very lucky.
Melissa Milner 22:48
So how can people reach out to you especially you know, if someone's listening their curriculum coordinator, and they're like, jazzed by the stuff you're they're hearing how can they reach you?
Erin Burchill 22:58
Email is great. Email is great. So it's erin.burchill@reading.k12.ma.us
Heather Leonard 23:05
And same email's great for me mine is LeonardH@mersd.org. Definitely reach out. And honestly, selfishly, I would love to hear from anyone because...
Erin Burchill 23:21
As would I.
Heather Leonard 23:21
I'm telling you that collaborative network, I lean on that constantly. And so it's not even just cricket directors, teachers and folks in the professional learning space for, you know, thinking about adult learning, and I'm eager to continue to grow my professional network as well. So I'd love to hear from folks.
Erin Burchill 23:37
Same here. Same here.
Melissa Milner 23:38
Wonderful. Thanks so much for taking the time out to talk to us.
Heather Leonard 23:41
Thanks for the conversation, Melissa.
Erin Burchill 23:43
Thanks, Melissa. Appreciate it.
Melissa Milner 23:46
And the listeners can hear all your amazing gems of advice. I love it.
Heather Leonard 23:51
We appreciate you and all you do. Thank you.
Erin Burchill 23:54
Yes, we do.
Melissa Milner 23:54
Thank you. For my blog, transcripts of this episode, and links to any resources mentioned, visit my website at www.theteacheras.com. You can reach me on Twitter and Instagram @melissabmilner and I hope you check out The Teacher As... Facebook page for episode updates. Thanks for listening. And that's a wrap.