Ep. 76: Zooming In On Hover Free Secondary Teaching with Miriam Plotinsky
Make sure to check out Miriam’s guest blog post.
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Transcript:
Melissa Milner 0:08
Welcome to The Teacher As... podcast. I'm your host Melissa Milner, a teacher who is painfully curious and very easily inspired. This podcast is ever changing and I hope with each season, you find episodes that speak to you in your work as an educator. This is the fourth season of The Teacher As... and it's exciting to see the growth in how many educators are listening. Episodes are released every other week. If you enjoy The Teacher As... please rate it on Apple podcasts and leave a review, it helps the podcast reach more educators. Thanks for listening.
Miriam Plotinsky 0:41
My name is Miriam Plotinsky. By day, I am an instructional specialist for secondary English language arts and literacy in a very large school district in Maryland. And then what I call my side hustle or the night shift, I do a few different things. I teach teachers in graduate courses about the art and the craft of teaching. And then I also write books and articles. So I have one book that's out already called Teach More Hover Less, one coming out in March about school leadership, and then another one in the pipeline. That's in production.
Melissa Milner 1:14
That's amazing. So cool. Do you want to talk about your genesis from teaching to going into the leadership, teaching teachers slash writing that whole process for you?
Miriam Plotinsky 1:29
It was definitely a process. And it was one that was strongly steeped in instruction, which has always been a happy place for me. I don't know if it was intentional initially, but I stayed in the classroom for longer than a lot of people do, who wind up being in the position that I'm in. So typically, people might have more of an eye toward leadership from their early education years, or their years as educators and then they have sort of this vision, I did not mean to necessarily stay in the classroom. Initially, I was interested in education policy. I got my graduate degree in that in Washington, DC, where education policy is a thing. And then I realized that people who are in the classroom don't usually go into ed. policy and this was a very disillusioning moment for me. They didn't have classroom experience, what was going on, my perspective wasn't as valued as I was hoping it would be from that on the ground place. So I inadvertently decided to stay in the classroom longer. And in so doing, I got hooked on teaching. Started to love it so much. This was about three to five years in. And I stayed in the classroom for almost 20 years.
Melissa Milner 2:34
Oh, yeah.
Miriam Plotinsky 2:34
Toward the...yeah. And then toward toward the end of that time, I became a school leader. I was doing in house professional development for the school that I worked at. I was doing, I was a department head, and I got my certification in administration and supervision, thinking I might want to do that. But then this this job opened up in my county for something called an instructional specialist with someone who was sort of a an in house consultant of sorts. And it was to work with pre K to 12 schools in a specific part of the county, because we divided it up. It's a huge county. And I thought it sounded like a great adventure. So I started doing that. And I learned so much about instruction that I had not seen before, because I had been in only ninth to 12th grade.
Melissa Milner 3:17
Yeah.
Miriam Plotinsky 3:18
And you learn an awful lot from all the all the different ages and stages. And so that was really enlightening. And around the same time, I started writing articles about an experience I'd had as a creative writing teacher with a method that I had not yet coined, but it was a way to step back and let students do more. And these articles started to take. And this wasn't the first This isn't 2020 that all this kind of started
Melissa Milner 3:43
Oh, wow.
Miriam Plotinsky 3:45
So here I am. Here I am, you know, learning how to do a new gig and I get an email from a publisher saying have you ever considered writing a book and this was about two months into the pandemic? And I thought timing is good. And who doesn't want to write a book? Well, maybe some people don't. But I really did. So I started to take methods that had worked for me that that I had never been able to explain verbally to people. And I created what are now exemplified in my book as the four stages of hover free instruction.
Melissa Milner 4:18
Yes, yes.
Miriam Plotinsky 4:20
So that it would make sense outside my own
Melissa Milner 4:21
Hands off instruction, I noticed is another way of saying it.
Miriam Plotinsky 4:24
Yeah...that too. I couldn't decide.
Melissa Milner 4:27
So right, so the book which I really honestly I enjoyed so much I was sharing with you before we started recording. The book is called Teach More comma, Hover Less: How to Stop Micromanaging your Secondary Classroom. And as I'm going through the book, I'm going yep, we do that in fourth grade. We do that in elementary. Yep, we do that we do that we do that and I'm like, Oh, okay. They don't naturally normally do this maybe in high school. And you know, the menu idea or I have so much to say. So before we jump into the book, because I have like, I'm like, turn to page, you know, because I want to talk about certain things. Like, there's, like, I'm taking this and using it tomorrow in my fourth grade classroom. So even if you're elementary, you're gonna get a lot out of this book. But can you tell us your version, synopsis summary of the book?
Miriam Plotinsky 5:22
Well, first of all, thank you so much for saying that. I always get really excited when people tell me that anything I do is useful or helpful, because that's the goal. And you're you're right, I was very inspired when I was in that job by watching elementary classrooms. And very often in secondary spaces, we might assume that kids don't necessarily need that kind of classroom. They'll...they'll do what we want them to do without all the bells and whistles, but it's not really bells and whistles, it's a way of learning. And so it can be deceptive. And just because a child is compliant doesn't mean the child has learned. So that's the approach that I took. And I remember the most influential teacher in my life was, when I was student teaching, I had a cooperating teacher in seventh grade, and she did station rotation, I've never seen it work so seamlessly. And so I'd seen it done in a secondary space and knew that it could be incredible. And I saw her be successful in ways that her colleagues were not. So that was a really great early experience.
Melissa Milner 6:20
What did that success look like? Sound like? Engaged students? Like, what... could you define that.
Miriam Plotinsky 6:27
The students in her class, first of all, were excited to be there. They came in, they knew exactly what to do, they knew exactly where to go. There wasn't the usual cajoling or let's get focused. And there were and this was a very challenging group of kids, it wasn't as though they didn't have a lot to distract them outside of the school day to make life more difficult, because we have students who have they're carrying so much. But the way that she designed her classroom, they were able to move into spaces, depending minutes was not every day, we didn't do stations all the time. But the choice driven days where they could go where they were inclined to go. And that was so important, because there are a lot of kids who walk into our classrooms, and they don't want to talk that day, or they might want to talk a lot. Or perhaps they have something specific they want to do first because that's what they feel comfortable doing at that point in time. And we can't always accommodate how students feel. But I don't think that we do it enough. So if there's just a day or two each week, where we're allowing for that, it's building trust in a way that's much more through action than through words, you know, we're not saying, I'm here for you or I have your back, we're not, we're not all talk and no action, they know that we're there for them. Because we've created a space for them.
Melissa Milner 7:45
Right and when you say a day, that's obviously secondary, when you might have them for one period. A right like elementary, it might be find 30 to 40 minutes, where, you know, there can be this choice time, or could even be within the class structure. You know, the math, we have math centers, and they have the choice that they and their partner choose which center, they want to, you know, grab those different centers, and they choose one.
Miriam Plotinsky 8:13
Yeah. And the term centers is not always familiar to people who teach older grades. So you noticed, as you're saying, and this is important to know, in secondary spaces, we don't necessarily see kids every day, we might see them for, you know, 70 to 90 minutes every other day, or two to three days a week, might happen for 45 minutes, four days a week. And I know that during the height of the pandemic, it was more like 45 minutes, twice a week. So that really is not as much time as we ever want. And so that too, works against us with student centered learning, because it's, it's the whole I have to get through. I have to get through my content, I have to teach this, I have to pace it. And so one thing that I tried to emphasize is it's not how much content you're getting through that's being affected here. It's how you approach it, the content shouldn't change, the curriculum doesn't change. That's your expertise as a teacher, right? And that's, that's your job to make those decisions. It's just how kids are accessing.
Melissa Milner 9:09
Yeah, exactly. Even just I mean, just adding more choice makes a huge difference.
Miriam Plotinsky 9:17
Yeah, I was doing I was doing in our professional development in a school yesterday or the day before, and we're talking about differentiation. And there's this great, I'm trying to remember who invented this because it would be great to credit them. But it's something called the plus one framework, where you take whatever you're doing that day and you just recommend to add one more choice. It's not even this huge thing. Just one more thing.
Melissa Milner 9:36
That's a great, great tip for any grade. So mindset shifts, reframing relationships, from engagement to investment, and then the choice based instruction.
Miriam Plotinsky 9:47
Yes, those are the first...
Melissa Milner 9:48
and then you put it all together.
Miriam Plotinsky 9:51
I do and I put it all together at the end. I'm going to work backwards a little bit but because teachers don't have a lot of time to read professional development books. right now. And I felt this as a teacher sometimes to the frustration of reading something, but not necessarily finding practice from the theory right away. So while I recommend to anybody who reads this book, they go in order of the chapters just to see the stages, they don't have to, I am seriously just a tapping, if you flip around, find a figure or a chart that looks like you could do it. And do that.
Melissa Milner 10:24
Yeah. And I'll speak to a couple that I would recommend, because I was like, Oh, I'm gonna use this. And, oh, I like this.
Miriam Plotinsky 10:33
That's good. And they've been tested on real children. So that's important to know. But in terms of the actual stages, so I start with mindset, because when it comes to student centered learning, anything around philosophies and approaches, it has to do with what we believe, what do we believe that students can do versus what they can't do. So if I'm in a very teacher directed space, I was in one a few weeks ago, and the teacher is asking students to define terms and showing them videos, and is very in charge of of the space, and there really wasn't any any student talk. So that tells me that probably not explicitly, but implicitly, the teacher doesn't think that the learning is going to happen without that high level of direction. So that first section of the book, they're all these little tools, like take a mindset quiz, like the magazines that know how much do I micromanage or I might be a micromanager, if, and a lot of these little characteristics seem pretty innocuous by themselves. But when you put them together, they start translating to something. So for example, I used to be taught that it was advisable to teach bell to bell, you start when the bell rings, you end when the bell rings, that's what you do fill that time. And it was only later on that I started to question that, because that allows for no flexibility at all. That means that I'm driving everything. And so if a student shares a tangential idea, as long as it's not let's distract the teacher forever, which they do. Why not? Why can't I have that kind of agility, so that the mindset shift piece of that first section, and then I move into relationships on a different level. And this is actually what I'm writing my third book about right now, which is that when we are in classrooms, it's important to have rapport yes, rapport matters, kids liking us. Completely important. But that's not the only thing they have to trust that we respect them as learners. And if we don't show that we have that faith and that value in their ideas, we're not going to have completed the loop. And they might not be comfortable sharing things with us on a deeper level, which leads into the third stage, when we're planning for instruction, how we pull kids into the process, when we ask for that, first of all, do we ask for their feedback? And when we do, do we make changes, I'm teaching my class tomorrow night of adult learners. And I'm going to start the class by sharing their feedback from our last class and say, here's what we here's what we're doing as a result, here's what I can't do. And here's why.
Melissa Milner 12:59
Yeah.
Miriam Plotinsky 12:59
These are the changes that we're making. And here are your lingering questions that we're going to address. So that way they know that before finishing my lesson plans, I took their thoughts into consideration. So just that kind of approach. Again, they're not teaching the class, but I'm listening. And I'm and I'm, they have they have a say. So there are tools for that and that section. And then finally, what we were just discussing is the choice based. How do you create opportunities for choice where maybe you haven't before? How do you start thinking, what do I have to do? What can they do? And what can we do?
Melissa Milner 13:30
Yeah, that's one of the charts. That's one of the charts.
Miriam Plotinsky 13:35
One of the charts. I like that chart.
Melissa Milner 13:36
What about the from engagement to investment? Is that... is the reframing the relationships, allowing for the from the engagement to investment?
Miriam Plotinsky 13:46
Yes, so that when you ask them what they think they'll tell you the truth.
Melissa Milner 13:50
Yep.
Miriam Plotinsky 13:51
Otherwise, you're not going to hear anything. Or you know, you won't, most often I think we feel this, from the teaching perspective, we might get a survey from our leaders saying, Hey, I talked about this in my second book, you know, what do you think about and you feel as though some just checking boxes, and might not even feel like a safe thing to do to say what you think. So we're trying to create a situation where that's not the case at all.
Melissa Milner 14:15
When you're saying you have the second book and the third book. I need to get my head around this. The second book is what? What's the title?
Miriam Plotinsky 14:24
It's called Lead... Lead like a Teacher and it's coming out in March. And it's all about how school leaders can really incorporate the teacher perspective into the work they do.
Melissa Milner 14:35
Ah. O.k. so you took, you took elementary ideas brought them to high school level now you're bringing teaching ideas to leadership.
Miriam Plotinsky 14:46
Yes.
Melissa Milner 14:46
Gotcha.
Miriam Plotinsky 14:47
With enormous disclaimers.
Melissa Milner 14:48
And by the way...
Miriam Plotinsky 14:50
Yeah, by the way, no, we all we all feel disclaimers when we write just in case don't, you know, don't hurt my feelings.
Melissa Milner 14:58
And then you said your third title was...
Miriam Plotinsky 15:01
So I don't have a title.
Melissa Milner 15:01
You're working on it.
Miriam Plotinsky 15:03
It's germinating. Yeah. So I signed the contract for just about a month ago. So it's in the process. But essentially, the idea behind it is, is to build student identity with writing instruction, actually, so that they can create a positive, a positive academic sense of self that follows them beyond school. And I'm presenting on that topic in a couple of weeks at the National Council for Teachers of English.
Melissa Milner 15:26
Yeah, that sounds great. Okay, so I'm going to share, and then I want, I want you to give you know what you were thinking behind it? Was that your intent when you wrote it, or created it, so page 47. For those of you who have the book.
Miriam Plotinsky 15:43
I'll pull out my copy too, so I can cross reference.
Melissa Milner 15:45
This is the dynamic planning guide. And I thought this was really cool. Because, you know, first you have the usual stuff, you know, what is the desired learning outcome? And the main expectations of the assignment? What are the teacher directed elements? And then the next three are like, Oh, purposely planning for these things make sense. So the first one is what can students accomplish without help? And then the next one: How can students exercise choice throughout this process, both with the work itself and with deadlines? And then the third one: what materials are needed for students to be both autonomous and successful? So you're planning for that hands off instruction right at the beginning.
Miriam Plotinsky 16:37
Yes, yes, you are. It's literally part of your, of your thought process. Yeah. And, you know, for naysayers, who they say, Oh, it's so much extra work. This is something you're gonna do anyway, the question is, When are you going to do it? Are you going to figure it out while they're in front of you? And be taken unawares? Or are you going to think no, we do all we think about our instruction, I had a lot, I just encourage writing, writing it down, or typing it, you know, just say, what, what can they do? And what do I need to do?
Melissa Milner 17:05
And it's just quick, quick notes. It's not like it's a dissertation. Yeah. So that I was like, okay, yeah, like, have this in my mind as I'm doing my planning. And then the other one was page, well, other few, so page 86. And that was the completed self reflection mindset. So this, I just like that whole piece of non negotiables, student centered elements, those two pieces. Again, not always something that you see in these planner, you know, teacher planner, things. So in non negotiables, you know, student contributions, collaborative work, less teacher talk, I don't want to lecture. So there's little boxes. So you might say, you know, what, my non negotiable is less teacher talk, which I have been working on for years. I'm getting better at it good. But it's hard. Yeah,
Miriam Plotinsky 18:07
We all work on it constantly. It's hard we enjoy talking about what we do.
Melissa Milner 18:11
I love this transparency. They know what success looks like, and how to get there. I love that one. Opportunity for reassessment wherever possible. Flexibility with how assignments are presented, as long as they are completed, and consistent feedback. So you as a teacher say, Okay, for this course, are all of these my non negotiables? Or I'm going to pick it made? What was your thought with that?
Miriam Plotinsky 18:38
My thought is you pick what makes sense to you. And it's not even necessarily for the course it might be we're in the first month, what am I what do I want to do first? So what culture am I building? And how am I going to use these non negotiables to get there. So I might start with just less teacher talk. I'm going to get students accustomed to a teacher who doesn't say as much. And here's how I'm going to do it. And so again, it's really a know thyself sort of situation here. But not just know know who you are, but then start to think about what it looks like tangibly, because we tend to plan and to instruct a lot with intuition, or with gut feelings. And a plan like this takes a little bit of that out of the equation and makes us hold ourselves a little more accountable. And I mean, accountable in a very positive way. People think accountability, they think punitive. Accountability just means I know what I'm supposed to be doing and I know what they're supposed to be doing. So that's helpful for everybody.
Melissa Milner 19:32
Yeah. And I think students can tell when a teacher is on track and knows what they're doing compared to a teacher that's kind ah.
Miriam Plotinsky 19:40
Yup. They do.
Melissa Milner 19:42
and then and then the students centered elements again with the boxes, varied seating arrangements, student led activators materials selected not just by me, I want kids to bring in anything relevant emphasis on projects, learning by doing and taking suggestions for ways to enjoy the process Fun Friday and so forth. Giving them a voice is big.
Miriam Plotinsky 20:03
Exactly. It's also, it can also be a time thing, we might want to start with various seating arrangements, I'm going to teach you these three to four different arrangements, depending on what our class is structured like, we're going to practice getting into and out of them. So that when I say, you know, formation one, or whatever you want to say, there we go. And that's a very, it seems like a logistical detail, or an operational one.
Melissa Milner 20:26
Routines. yeah.
Miriam Plotinsky 20:26
Exactly, but it leads to instructional outcomes. And then know later on in the month or unit or year, when they're more trusting, they might feel comfortable leading an activator, they might feel comfortable giving you a resource and say, Hey, can we use this, this is great. I mean, when I used to teach poetry, which is typically an area of huge resistance for older students, by the time they get to high school, they're not as excited about poetry a lot of the time that had I know, well, it's a whole other avenue there, but bring in a poem that you like, and the poem can be a song lyric, so you make this very accessible entry point. And then it becomes a different conversation.
Melissa Milner 21:06
Yeah, as long when you can say song, because I whenever I do poetry, or even when I'm doing just like figurative language, I pull out and I don't think it's great music, but I pull out the Katy Perry. Cuz it's, I mean, come on. I've got the eye of the tiger.
Miriam Plotinsky 21:24
A lot of metaphors.
Melissa Milner 21:24
Firework, Roar... She's all about the metaphor, or simile or Yeah, so yeah, just making it just something that's they're gonna be interested.
Miriam Plotinsky 21:36
Excited about. Because if you don't, you know, to learn the people, you have to understand the people. And you also have to, to realize that you're not they're gonna find things that you've never seen before. And you're gonna want to keep and hold on to for future groups of students. So that's the other thing is mutually beneficial practice.
Melissa Milner 21:53
Yeah, that's awesome. And the last thing that I really like, Oh, my God, it was page 94 and 95. Yeah. And you already mentioned it, it's the your job, my job and our job. Now, I've seen this before, again, in elementary but, on page 95, you give this great little, like example. So your job, I have a journal at the ready, every class period, my job, the teacher's job, create a list of simple statements to use as an ongoing activator and that our job, participate actively not passively listen to one another. And so I've seen this structure, when a kid is having behavior issues. And it's really behavior centered. So your job is to, you know, sit in your seat, listen attentively, whatever. My job is to work hard to make my lessons interesting. And my job is to remind you when blah blah blah and then our job is to make sure everybody's able to learn that we're not stopping others from learning, however, you would do it. I've all I think I've only seen it as a behavior thing.
Miriam Plotinsky 23:07
Well, and it's interesting, because then the example that you just gave the instructional component, so the learning is in the responsibility and realm of the teacher. And it's the student job simply to comply.
Melissa Milner 23:19
Yeah.
Miriam Plotinsky 23:20
And to not interfere. And so it's a very different kind of thing to say, No, you have a job when you're learning you, we have a shared responsibility in this room. And here's how it's mapped out.
Melissa Milner 23:30
Exactly. And that's it your job, my job, our job. It's very, that our job really brings it into community, you know?
Miriam Plotinsky 23:41
Yeah. And also, you know, for teachers who are saying, well, but are students just going to teach the class? No, that's your job. But we are going to find ways to learn from one another and to empower one another.
Melissa Milner 23:54
Absolutely. Amazing. So those are the things that really like, oh, my gosh, for me, were there parts of your book that you wanted to particularly talk about that you haven't talked about yet?
Miriam Plotinsky 24:05
I mean, there, there are certain parts of my book that I really like my I think, and this is a personal reason, but you know, I have I have three children of my own who are in elementary, middle and high school. So I've got one of each and the chapter two the beginning, reframing relationships, the story about Jennifer...
Melissa Milner 24:24
Yes.
Miriam Plotinsky 24:25
That's probably my own personal favorite part of the book. It's, it's about a girl who's in science class, and she's trying to raise her hand. She's very shy, or she's perceived as shy. And she's trying to answer a question about symbiosis. And it's sort of presented two different ways. The first way where a teacher gives a more classic, she's wrong, her first answer is wrong. And the first part, the teacher says, oh, you know, not exactly and they move on, and she's like, I'm never going to talk again. Because that's how some can take that. And then the second situation, the teacher sticks with her and manages to decompress this situation and also to turn it so that mistakes are celebrated. And so that we feel safe as learners no matter what we say, no matter what a kid says, We're gonna find a way to validate it.
Melissa Milner 25:10
Yes.
Miriam Plotinsky 25:11
As long as it's... So for me, I think I connect to this part because as a teacher for so many years, you know, we see kids who are invisible. And sometimes we make the assumption they're trying to be invisible, or sometimes we think, Oh, just a quiet kid, or just a shy kid. And then I think, what are they like at home? Well, probably not quiet at home. We probably just miss something. You know, they're not comfortable with the kids around them. They're not comfortable with us. So it's become this area of passion for me, that's what this part of the book represents, is trying to figure out how we can really tap into kids to figure out who they really are.
Melissa Milner 25:47
Yeah, I'm gonna read there's three bullet points on page 25. That I was like, Oh, yeah. So it says the specific takeaways to remember when calling on students or singling them out in any way are. So the first one, validate all answers correct or otherwise, by using them to move the entire class understanding of a concept forward. Do not call on other students to provide the right or desired we do this all the time. We do this all the time,
Miriam Plotinsky 26:18
Well, because we have the answer in our heads, and we're waiting for someone else to tell us what we think.
Melissa Milner 26:22
Yeah. So to not call on other students to provide the quote, right answer or desired answer, as this practice is an unspoken way of removing confidence from the student who responded first. Stop and make instruction clear if a student shows confusion, if one student is confused, and I say this all the time, it is likely that other students are in the same boat. I'm always like, raise your hand and ask the question, because you are probably not the only one who has this question.
Miriam Plotinsky 26:50
Yeah. And we say any questions, but then,
Melissa Milner 26:53
Right? So the kid gets it wrong. And they're like, oh, my gosh, they're way off. What is it? What does the teacher say?
Miriam Plotinsky 27:06
You have some options, you could say, tell me more about that. That's one of my favorite ones. Tell me more about about what you're thinking. Because it really does help uncover what their brain is doing. And then you can say, Oh, I get it. I see why you said that. You can, if it's way, way off base, and you don't think you can get there just by telling me about it. Because that happens sometimes, like you're over here. And there's a child way over there. And maybe they weren't listening carefully. Or maybe they're just writing say, I love that idea, because and you find a reason why. And then you say let's pause for a second. Turn to someone next to you and talk about this question a little bit more. What are some other ideas? And so
Melissa Milner 27:45
Everybody, everybody turns and talks.
Miriam Plotinsky 27:46
Everybody, everybody turns and talks. And so, you know, building off of this idea that we had, where else can we go? And then if they haven't done anything wrong, you're like this, you said, what specifically is great about that idea. If even if I'm trying to think of an example, off the top of my head, if you've written you know, a paper about a copyright dispute over a famous soft drink brand, and then you send the kids like I love I love Coke, it's the best thing ever. Well, and that, I like what you're saying, because the reason that soft drink brands are so intent on keeping their branding is because you're obviously a customer, you're obviously someone who cares. That's fantastic. Okay, so let's go with that. Let's think about that. Everyone. Take a moment. Let's consider this question further. Once you do that a kid isn't gonna sit back and go, I'm never talking again.
Melissa Milner 28:43
Right?
Miriam Plotinsky 28:44
Well, and also we as teachers, I'm just going to put this out there. Our job is not to fill kids with our knowledge. That's that's not really why we're there. So if we have one answer in mind, we might want to challenge that unless it's some other fact based answers. But then even in that situation, I think my favorite mistake is strategy in this book. Great for math class, we have a problem that has one answer. Tell a bunch of kids in the class put them on a piece of paper. Let's put them in a hat. Let's pull him out. This one right around. Right. Okay, wrong. How did someone get to this answer? Let's think about it. Let's uncover the thinking because that's that's more important. Some ways to think about how we can conceptualize but still be very active in our thinking.
Melissa Milner 29:24
Yeah, I do. It's a little different, but I do a favorite mistake. Yeah. Have you done favorite mistakes? The kids love it. The kids love it. I mean, it really focuses on the fact that even if you get something wrong, look at how much you did right? This one little thing.
Miriam Plotinsky 29:45
And yeah, well and also I like to distinguish between mistake an error. Mistake is like a little blip. You know, we didn't mean to we know we know what to do when we make a mistake. We knew we know how to fix it. An error is different and error we need to do some teaching.
Melissa Milner 29:59
So I definitely want to know, how can people reach you before I asked the last question, and how can they get your book and books, you have two books that are published, right?
Miriam Plotinsky 30:09
Well, one is it's available for pre order. So first of all my books are on anywhere books are sold. So if you go on Amazon, you'll see Teach More, Hover Less, you can buy it and have it in two days with your Prime. And then also pretty much everywhere books are sold, and then Lead Like a Teacher is up for preorder. Both, you know, it's Amazon, Barnes and Noble or wherever you like to get your books, it's there. In terms of finding me, my website is my first and last name together. So miriamplotinsky.com. And there's a contact form on there. And I respond to anybody who writes there who wants to engage in awesome conversations about teaching. So I am very, very accessible in that way. And then the social media that I engage in is @mirplomcps, that's Twitter, and again, I'm very friendly. I do have a Facebook page as well. So I have a page on Facebook with my first and last name. So if you search for me, like there's a there's a page and, you know, that's where I post my articles and my podcasts, like, for example, our delightful conversation will be posted there. I'll tag you, if I can find you.
Melissa Milner 31:14
I'm there. This has been really, really cool. So my last question is, what are you zooming in on right now in your work, either the writing that you're doing? Or at school? What are you doing it on?
Miriam Plotinsky 31:31
I have heard a lot from teachers about how they can continue to serve a variety of students in their classrooms. With, you know, you have the differentiated needs, but you also have differentiated backgrounds and perspectives. And and it's, it's a very challenging thing to just give people some online tools and say, Go, you can do this now because that's not the reality. So I've been putting a lot of thinking behind where do we create accessible entry for everybody? But it's the standard is the same no matter who the student is or how we perceive them? And how do we give them those options for elevating? And how do we show them that they can do it? How do we communicate that very explicitly. So that's what I've been working on a lot. And then of course, I'm very steeped in my book right now. So I have been creating so many fun, awesome, or just reinventing ones that I've done, which is also great. Like, I have some favorite activities that I like to do. So I've been putting them into the book for this is how we really connect to who kids are. It looks like it's fun, but we're learning things about them.
Melissa Milner 32:36
That sounds good.
Miriam Plotinsky 32:38
I'm very excited about this one that I'm writing now I'm, I'm in that writing space where it just it's flowing, which doesn't always flow. So I like it when that happens.
Melissa Milner 32:47
Yeah. Who's the publisher.
Miriam Plotinsky 32:49
Norton books in education? They are an imprint of WW Norton.
Melissa Milner 32:52
Okay, so they just saw your articles and approached you?
Miriam Plotinsky 32:57
So it's funny, there's different publishers on my articles, but it started that journey. And then it was really funny because that other publisher, and it's sort of I started blogging for Norton around the same time, and I saw the work they were doing, and I was like, Oh, I like I like, so I wrote, it was like, Hey, I've got this whole book, in the works, might you be interested? And they're like, yes.
Melissa Milner 33:19
That's awesome.
Miriam Plotinsky 33:20
So it was kind of funny. It's like that song about Northern Stars, like they lead you toward other things.
Melissa Milner 33:25
Yes.
Miriam Plotinsky 33:27
The Northern Star isn't where you wind up.
Melissa Milner 33:29
I love that though. That is great. That's fantastic. And your ideas are, you know, they go kind of across. I know it this is really for secondary teachers, but the philosophies and the ideas go across all grades. Yeah.
Miriam Plotinsky 33:46
I'm really glad to hear that because you have that elementary expertise. And so and also, I should say that one of my teammates in my previous position was such a such a luminary in elementary for good. Like he knew everything. And so he really influenced my thinking too, because, you know, I just, I needed that perspective.
Melissa Milner 34:03
So thank you so much. And I hope everybody checks out Miriam's books, and I honestly think you should do a podcast, but that's just me.
Miriam Plotinsky 34:13
I would love to I just don't know where I would find the time. I think my children, my children, they would stop having me.
Melissa Milner 34:19
Yeah, I mean, the writing the books and the you know, working in schools and teaching teachers it is a lot.
Miriam Plotinsky 34:25
But someday, maybe, it's very inspiring to listen to you so...
Melissa Milner 34:28
Well. Thank you again.
Miriam Plotinsky 34:30
Thank you. This was fun. It was great talking with you.
Melissa Milner 34:33
For my blog, transcripts of this episode, and links to any resources mentioned, visit my website at www.theteacheras.com. You can reach me on Twitter and Instagram @melissabmilner and I hope you check out The Teacher As... Facebook page for episode updates. Thanks for listening. And that's a wrap.