Episode 25: Zooming In On Punk Rock Parallels with Mike Earnshaw
How to reach Mike:
Punk Rock Classrooms' Twitter page
Transcript:
(Transcribed by kayla.r.fainer@gmail.com)
Melissa Milner 00:09
Hi, this is Melissa Milner. Welcome to The Teacher As... podcast. The goal of this weekly podcast is to help you explore your passions and learn from others in education and beyond to better your teaching. The Teacher As... podcast will highlight innovative practices and uncommon parallels in education.
In this Zooming In episode, I interview Mike Earnshaw. He's a principal and co-host of a podcast called Punk Rock Classrooms. You should check it out. So what I'm zooming in on in this interview is punk rock parallels. Make sure to check out Season 1 Episode 16: Teacher As... Punk Rocker with Nancy Burrell if you want to hear more about punk rock parallels. Enjoy.
Welcome, Mike, to The Teacher As... podcast. How are you?
Mike Earnshaw 00:57
I'm fantastic. Thanks so much for having me. I'm excited to be here.
Melissa Milner 01:00
Really excited to have you on. We wanted to have your buddy on, as well, from the Punk Rock Classroom podcast. But hopefully he'll be on another time. Can you just tell The Teacher As... listeners a little bit about you, and I'm going to request a little bit about the podcast, as well.
Mike Earnshaw 01:18
Yeah, sure. So first off, I'm a father. So you may hear my kids screaming in the background. Even though I'm in a separate room, they're extremely loud. They're 11 and 8 years old. But I am a elementary school principal. I have been at my building for-- this is my seventh or eighth year. I'm not quite sure. I don't really do counts. But I know it's around seven or eight.
Before that, I was a middle school assistant principal in the same district that I'm in now. And then before that, I spent about almost 15 years as a middle school ELA teacher, sixth, seventh and eighth grade. Everyone always asks, how did you make the transition from the classroom to being an administrator. And I never wanted to be an administrator, like ever. But I remember I was getting married, and I was chaperoning.
So I was a single guy at the time, and I was chaperoning a basketball game. And I was talking to my principal and assistant principal. And I was like, yeah, I'm gonna go back to school for my Masters. They were like, oh, what are you gonna go for? I said, I don't know, something with English or curriculum. And they both kind of looked at each other and were like, no, you need to go for administration.
And I kind of laughed at them. I was like, no, that's totally not me. I grew up as a punk rocker, fight the man. I'm just gonna kind of do my thing in the classroom and impact my kids that way. And they were like, no, you've got qualities that would make you a great administrator. And plus, even if you choose not to go that route, it's going to open more doors in the long run for things you can do with an Administrative Masters. So I was like, alright.
So I got married, and I started the classes. And I fell in love with it right away, just in my coursework. And so that's kind of the route I took to do this. So I've been a principal for eight years. So I'm in Lansing, Illinois. My school is called Oak Glen Elementary School. It's district 158. And it's interesting, because we're like the south side of Chicago, but not like-- so we're not Chicago boundaries. So we're not part of the whole CPS system. But it is like the south suburbs of Chicago. We are the last town before you cross the border into Indiana.
So I actually live in Indiana. Property taxes are way cheaper in Indiana. So when we got married, it was like a no brainer. And after we lived in Indiana for a couple years, my wife and I said, we can never move back there. But it's interesting, because I see the things that our district does, especially with the climate right now with the pandemic going on. But then, because I live in Indiana and my kids go to an Indiana school, there's differences.
And it's interesting, because literally, it could take me seven minutes to get to work from my house. And it's two different states. So it's just interesting with how close we are, how there's some big differences in what initiatives and laws and things like that.
Melissa Milner 04:21
That's fascinating, state to state, yeah.
Mike Earnshaw 04:24
It is. And my wife will ask me sometimes, well, can they do this? And I'm like, I don't know. In Illinois, we can't. I mean, Indiana is completely different. They might be able to get away with it.
Melissa Milner 04:34
Right. What's your favorite part about being a principal?
Mike Earnshaw 04:39
My favorite part has got to be just making a difference in other's lives. I know it's cliche. And they say when you become an administrator, you impact more than the 20, 30 kids in your classroom. But it's so true. And you don't just impact kids. I truly feel like I have a huge impact on the staff, on our families, the community. There's all these different stakeholder groups that I get to be a part of. I'm not saying teachers don't. But I feel like I do have a much larger area or PLN and impact on those other groups.
And one of my favorite things to do is just empower and make a difference in teachers' lives. Because then I know that they're taking that back to their classrooms. And they're the ones that are impacting the kids. And in a way, I obviously had a say in that. That's why when kids are in school-- or even now, we're fully remote. Our teachers are home. Our kids are at home. My days are spent-- I'm in the classroom.
So even when we had kids in school, I was sitting in the back or sitting in the middle. I'd find an empty desk, and I would just sit down. And sometimes I'd bring my computer with me and I was getting work done that I'd need to get done. But I'm still there, knowing what's going on and talking with them.
Now I hop on the Microsoft Teams lessons. And the kids would say, oh, Mr. Earnshaw's here! And they'll see me in my little square in the bottom. And just knowing what's going on and being a part of it, I think that's the best part.
In my first couple years as a principal, I wasn't doing that. And I was in that stereotypical mindset where I need to sit in my office and answer my phone and answer emails. And I'll do a lap around the building at 10 o'clock to check on everyone. Maybe I stop in the lunchroom. And I hated it. And I was like, look, there's no way I can do another 30, 35 years of this.
I was like, I've got to get back to what-- when I taught, I loved it. And it was a whole family feel. I know that sounds cliche, as well, like a family feel in my classroom, where we trusted each other, we respected each other. But we hold each other accountable and push each other. And I was like, I need to do that with being a principal.
So that's kind of how I got to get out of my office, wrote a whole book on things to build school culture and climate. So I think that's kind of like my passions to answer your question. Long winded but the culture and climate of schools and the school community as a whole is what I love most about it.
Melissa Milner 07:18
How does your passion for punk rock help you in all of that? How did it help you with teaching? How did it help you as a principal? How does it help you in assessing teachers? How does it help you in working with parents? There's so many things that I know you've made parallels on on your podcast, which I'm sure you'll talk about.
Mike Earnshaw 07:37
Right. Growing up, I was always a huge music fan. Music was something I found in fourth, fifth grade. I would just get lost in the lyrics and listening and it kind of transported me to another place. It took away any stresses and frustrations I had. And then as I got older-- I had been skateboarding since I can't even remember, first grade, second grade.
So when I got a little older in middle school, I kind of found punk rock. And at the time, punk rock was, in the 90s, it was kind of starting to gain some mainstream success with bands like Green Day and Offspring. But it still was kind of frowned upon. It wasn't totally accepted. And I kind of learned like these ethos.
And there's things that Josh and I talk about on our podcast, the Punk Rock Classrooms podcast, is passion, unity and DIY. And that's kind of like the three tenants that we focus on for our podcast and kind of how I view myself as an educational leader. Your passions, they make you who you are. And when I first became a principal, I was kind of hiding some of that. I wasn't very open about my whole choice in what I liked to listen to. I wasn't very open that I like to skateboard and still do. Because I was like, I'm the principal. I have to be professional in a shirt and tie every day.
And then a couple years ago, when I kind of broke out of that, I was like, I'm just gonna be me. And I started riding around on a skateboard. And I started incorporating more jeans days and wearing hoodies and just being there in the classrooms every day, sharing things that I was interested in and talking about music with kids and staff. And they kind of see you as a person. And they know he's really here for us. So then when it's time to do quote, unquote, "the work", what can we do to help raise these test scores or get these kids' attendance rates to go up or let's focus on lunchroom behavior, they know that you're there.
At least for me, I'm there for the right reasons. We talk a lot about unity, which growing up in the punk rock scene, a lot of it was we had to do things ourselves. The internet wasn't really around yet, not to the extent it is now. So getting bands to play shows and creating flyers or creating our own demo tapes, you relied on people you knew and a skill set they have.
So I try to tell the staff all the time, we don't need all these fancy programs that are out there and all the things that salesmen are trying to push and textbook companies. Yeah, some of this stuff's great. But just good impactful teaching, the reason we're here is to change kids' lives. We've got everything we need. You've got an expert down the hall from you. And if you don't, hop on social media, because someone out there can do or has done what you want to do.
Melissa Milner 10:30
That's interesting. You're putting that under unity. It's also under do it yourself. I love that.
Mike Earnshaw 10:35
Yeah, and that's the thing. These three are all tied together. And it's funny, because I feel like when Josh and I record, when we do an episode, I'm always like, Josh, it all comes back to relationships. And it all comes back-- But those three things, it's cyclical. They all go together. And then DIY, do it yourself, there's just something about knowing you put in the work. You've created this thing.
And I just love when you see a teacher and the students create something together, whether it's their own podcast or a reader's theater or whatever it is. But there's something you love about it. I mean, I'd rather go to a show in a basement with one little light hanging from the ceiling than spend $300 on a ticket to some stadium show of pyrotechnics. Because when you kind of have that DIY and just that passion there, there's something that's way more impactful. It's real. There's something organic about it, you know?
And I think it totally translates into education. I feel that I would not have been as successful as I have been, I feel our building, our kids, our staff, our parents, we wouldn't have such this collaborative, truly we're in this together mentality if it wasn't for me growing up, having those three tenants and sharing that, who I am and my background with everybody.
Melissa Milner 12:10
That's very cool. So as a teacher, day to day, how did these three tenants help you?
Mike Earnshaw 12:19
Before there was flexible seating, we were making our own flexible seating. I didn't have a seating chart. We didn't have desks in straight rows. Kids were underneath my counter. And we could read a piece together independently, but then have those conversations where you're just open and you're being yourself. And it was like a risk free environment. It all stemmed from building that.
Because when I taught, I was open with my kids. They knew everything about me, school appropriate about me. But you know, they knew about my wife and when my kids were first born. And they knew that I skateboarded. I used to bring the skateboard to school, and they knew everything about me, my passions. When I would go to the movies, I would tell them about my weekends.
And that really helped to build that bond that they knew-- because the kids would tell me, there's just something about you. We know that you respect us. And we know how far we can take things and what we can get away with. And we know when it's time to work with you. And to me, that said a lot. As educators, whether you're a teacher or a paraprofessional, we don't have to put this wall up. Like I'm up here on the stage, and you're down there, and you need-- we're all in this together.
I learned more from those kids when I taught than I think they probably learned from me the two or three years they had me. Because I was a looping teacher. So I'd have them for sixth, seventh and eighth grade. And it wasn't always like that though. That was my last couple years. But before that, before we had a principal who wanted to take the risk and do that looping grade, I would have kids come back and say, oh, I wish I had you for eighth grade.
To me, everything comes back to relationships and just having that open, trusting. The kids know that I'm there for them. And I'm gonna push them, because I know they can do better than maybe what they think of themselves sometimes.
Melissa Milner 14:20
High expectations and an open classroom. Yep, that sounds amazing. When you were teaching, were there certain strategies, project-based learning, certain things that you found were especially reminding you of your punk rock days, like a mosh pit. Are any of those parallels in teaching with strategies that you use in the classroom?
Mike Earnshaw 14:46
Yeah, there's a couple. I'll talk about two. I'll try to be brief about them. One of them, when you speak of the mosh pit, if no one's ever seen one or been in one, what it is, is it looks like chaos, but it's really not. Josh and I have touched on this on a couple episodes. When you have a mosh pit, there's a very formulaic process to it where if someone falls, there's gonna be five, six hands that grab them and pick them up.
Because we don't want anyone to get hurt. We don't want to leave anyone behind. We don't want anyone to get trampled. You've got people on the outside of the pit who are kind of serving as a barrier to keep that protection. And the people in the pit kind of know-- you could call them norms. When we go to a PLC meeting, we have our norms set up. There's just certain norms. It's not a violent, aggressive, out to hurt people. It's just for kids to get their energy out.
So I remember doing a project. The guy across the hall from me, he was on the same team as me. Him and I were going to school together to get our administrative degrees. And one of the projects was you had to do a classroom observation. So him and our principal came in and sat down, and they did a mock observation on me.
And the lesson I was doing was the kids had to take-- I brought in all these newspapers. And I can't remember. We were learning about verbs or nouns or something. It was something bland in language arts. And I was like, I've got to make this fun. So they were making ransom notes and cutting out pieces of the newspaper to form a ransom note. But there were certain criteria. Like you need so many action verbs, and you need so many possessive nouns.
And the thing was, though, my principal always said this. My room was like controlled chaos. Because it would look like the kids are just sitting around talking, cutting things. There's paper everywhere, there's glue. He says, but the kids are in there. Hee goes, and they're reading the newspaper. And then, he's like, they were having discussions about the current events that are in the paper, which I'm not gonna lie, I didn't even plan for that to happen. That just happened. And I took it as a bonus, right? I'm like, oh yeah, that was my goal.
He's like, but they're talking about current events, they're collaborating. And they're still getting your content done, but they're having fun doing it. And at the end of the day, you had all these notes that we posted around the classroom. And it had all these aspects to it. But to anyone walking by-- because teachers were telling me that all the time. I have to shut my door, because your room is so loud. And what are you even doing?
Well, we're learning. Look at your kids. You're getting mad at the three kids in the back who've got their head down or asleep. I'm like, no, I can't sit still. I've got undiagnosed ADHD. I need to be up and moving. Let's have fun. And so that kind of reminds me of the mosh pit, the controlled chaos. There was a whole process to what we were doing. And to somebody from the outside, it might look like that's not a good place to go. But it really was.
And then just another thing about being yourself, and punk rock bands would think outside the box and be who they were regardless of what other people thought. I remember when I was teaching, it was persuasive writing, argumentative writing, whatever they want to call it nowadays. But it was junior high kids. And I brought in The True Story of the Three Little Pigs.
Melissa Milner 18:22
Oh, I love that book.
Mike Earnshaw 18:24
Yes, everyone knows the story of the little pig. So I brought this in. And I read that to them. So then what we did, we set up a mock courtroom. And the kids came in. And as they came in, I passed out an index card. And you're a juror, you're the defendant, you are the stenographer. You're the guy who sits in the back and draws the cartoon drawing of the court. And I gave all these people roles.
And then the whole lesson was, we're gonna have an argument. We're gonna have a court hearing. Are the pigs guilty? Or is the wolf guilty? Who's the real culprit here? And it was so interesting, because I did that with my three classes that day. And I was fortunate enough to be an ELA teacher. I had a double block. So kids were with me twice as long as they were for science or social studies.
It was so interesting. Because one class, I would take the jurors into the teachers lounge, which really annoyed my colleagues that day. Because they would come in for lunch or copies, and here I am sitting there with 10 kids, trying to decide if the pigs are lying or the wolf is lying. My administrators completely supported this. Because they even came in and served on the jury for one of the classes. Each class had a different outcome.
And it was just so cool to see to teach them, when we are going to do an argumentative or persuasive piece of writing, you've got to look at both sides. You can't just have tunnel vision and think your ways right. And it's just thinking outside the box and trying something new.
And in punk rock, bands would always say with the new record, we tried something new. We're doing this. And it's all about trying things. If it fails, well, you pick yourself up and try again, and hopefully you have some fun along the way.
Melissa Milner 20:15
Could you give us a quick version of how you and Josh met and how you decided to start your podcast?
Mike Earnshaw 20:23
Yeah, I actually love this story. I'm glad you asked. So Josh and I met on a Thursday night. It was a Mastery Chat. You know, the Teach Better team has been doing Mastery Chat before I even was on Twitter. I had actually put out a blog. I had gotten out of my comfort zone. I was sharing blogs. And it was Josh's first Twitter chat ever.
And it was ironic, because there was a question. And I don't even remember the question, but I know I provided my answer. And I said, I just wrote this blog on this topic. And during the chat, I see a tweet from Josh. And he's like, oh my god, he just referenced Sick of it All, which is a hardcore band from New York. He's like, he just referenced Sick of it All in an education blog.
And then him and I start to talk. And it was funny, because he's like, I think we're best friends. And so then him and I, we kept the conversation going. We set up-- one day we talked on the phone. And he was like, have you ever thought about doing like a podcast? I'm like, yeah, I've always wanted to, Josh, but I have no idea of where to even start. Like I know there's platforms and stuff.
He was like, I run a comic book podcast, and I would love to do it if you'd be down. So him and I took a-- we've been doing this for a little over a year now. So we took that summer to kind of talk about some ideas we had. And the goal at first, we just wanted to have fun. And we were doing an episode every other week. Then we started to get people who seemed interested in what we were saying.
And from there, we got introduced to Voxer, which has made our conversations so much easier to talk. Rather than like a text or phone call every day, we can send a voice message to each other and listen to it. Yeah, so we've got a lot of good plans for it. We're just trying to expand on it and build on it. And I don't want to say we didn't take it seriously before, but we've got more of a vision of what we'd like to see with it.
We started incorporating guests recently, trying to just do some more things. We launched a website six, seven months ago and started putting blogs up on there. So honestly, if it wasn't for social media and Twitter and that Mastery Chat, you and I probably wouldn't be talking right now.
Melissa Milner 22:55
No, we wouldn't be. We wouldn't be. Yeah, I was gonna say, the power of Twitter. teachers want to connect and have real PD. Twitter, really, right now is, I think, number one for me.
Mike Earnshaw 23:09
Hands down.
Melissa Milner 23:10
I'll have a question. And I'll never forget this. I don't remember the man's name. But he wrote a whole bunch of really great books about how to make grammar and writing more interesting, like the actual teaching how to edit type of thing. And I was like, I wonder if he does it this way, because I was reading his book. So I went, and I'm like, maybe he's on Twitter. I went on Twitter, boom, there he was. I was able to message him. And within 10 minutes, the author of that book--
Mike Earnshaw 23:41
That's so awesome.
Melissa Milner 23:43
Had answered my question. I'm like, okay, now I get how Twitter works. This is incredible. Josh obviously is not living in the same area you're living in. So it's all technology for you in order to do this. It's not like you can go over to each other's houses.
Mike Earnshaw 23:59
Right. It's interesting, because I've had some of my staff even ask me. They're like, oh, you've never met him in person? I go, no, we always see each other on Zoom when we record. We try to do once or twice a month, a collaboration meeting. We talk every day on Voxer. But yeah, we've never met face to face. And we actually were going to. I was fortunate to present in Ohio at Teach Better 19. The podcast, I think we literally had like two episodes out of that point.
And so for Teach Better 20, Hans Appel was in charge of Podcasters Row. And he asked, hey, would Punk Rock Classrooms be interested in coming and being part of the Podcasters Row? You can do some live recordings there, interview people. They wanted to do some kind of presentations on what podcasting is. And for me, it's a five hour drive. I drove it last year.
And for him, he would have to fly out. He's in Arizona. And he was all for it. And he's like, that weekend works for me. And then it was one of those things, we knew it was coming. But we were just kind of keeping our fingers crossed. And then when we got the email, it was canceled. But we'll meet face to face one day.
Melissa Milner 25:20
It'll happen. It'll be amazing when you guys finally do. So what are you zooming in on right now, either with the podcast or with your career as principal? What are you zooming in on right now?
[ZOOMING IN SOUNDBITE]
Mike Earnshaw 25:36
Well, for the podcast, we like to say it's season two. We never really took a break. We still put stuff out over the summer. We thought it was important to kind of keep content going. So the first season, we kind of focused on those three tenants I talked about: passion, unity and DIY. We were drawing connections from education to that.
The second season, we're doing a lot more guest appearances. And when it's just Josh and I, were trying to focus on more topics. So we kind of tackled professional development, so looking at professional development through the lens of these punk rock ethos. And we talk about assessment with Dave Schmittou. So we're trying to focus more on gearing towards specific topics. We like to say season one was kind of like the intro of a book. And now we're like, alright, in practice to certain things in education.
Professionally, I have a book coming out, probably late spring, early summer, with EduMatch Publishing. So I submitted my final manuscript a couple months back. So I'm just kind of waiting to get some-- I'm kind of on vacation now. Because I know once the edits come in, I'll have some work to do after they kind of give me their suggestions. My book will be published.
So I'm signed with EduMatch. I got a contract. So right now, it's just in the editing stages. So I'm waiting to get my edits back. It's tentatively titled The EduCulture Cookbook.
And what I've kind of done is I've taken things that I've done at our school that have just improved the culture and climate for the positive. And everything in there, it's not for administrators to do with their staff. The way I wrote it is everything I've done, and this is just how I lead my staff, whether you're a teacher or a paraprofessional or administrator at any level, you can read a chapter and literally take it and put it into practice the next day with your students, with your staff, that punk rock mentality. You don't need all the fancy stuff. You can do this tomorrow.
And I think that's one of the most important things with PD and books. As educators, we don't want to have to wait and prepare three months to do something. So I'm super excited for that to come out, hopefully late spring, early summer.
And then just in my professional role, just trying to be there for my staff and students. And I'm not gonna lie, this year has been extremely hard for me. My whole life has revolved around being in the classrooms, and talking face to face and hanging out with people. And virtually, it's very hard. If I want to talk to a certain staff member, I have to schedule a meeting time. I miss being able to just go skate into their room, like, hey, you got a minute? Can we talk?
So I'm just working on trying to be there for them and just support the teachers. Because right now, I don't care what anyone says. The teachers are working harder than they ever have before, harder than they probably ever will. And I couldn't imagine being a classroom teacher right now. Hopefully they know that I'm there for them. And I'm just trying to support them as best as I can.
Melissa Milner
Yes. Are the kids in at all? Do you have like a hybrid, or is it all remote?
Mike Earnshaw 28:53
No, it's all remote. So our kids in my district, they have not been in school since March. We're hoping when we return, maybe like February 1st, but who knows? In our area of Chicago land, it's horrible right now.
Melissa Milner 29:09
Here's the most important question. You ready?
Mike Earnshaw 29:12
Uh oh. Yeah.
Melissa Milner 29:14
What's your favorite movie, and why?
Mike Earnshaw 29:18
My favorite movie.
Melissa Milner 29:20
I'm a movie fan. You're a punk rock fan, I'm a movie fan.
Mike Earnshaw 29:23
Right. You know, I'm probably gonna say Fight Club. Now, let me explain why. It's funny you asked me that. So Fight Club is one of the things where I love the movie. I love the book. The book is the only book, and I just put a tweet out last night of this. It's funny that you asked this. The book is the only book that I can ever go back and reread. Like once I read a book, I'm kind of done with it.
I read Fight Club at least once a year, usually twice a year. Especially when I watch the movie, it doesn't matter to me. I can never say the movie or the book's better. I love them both. I just feel there's so many parallels from that story to life. And there's so many things that like, every time I watch it, the movie, there's something new that I find that I'm like, oh my god, that relates so much to this. Or this is what's going on in my life.
And I just feel there's just so many connections. It's not just entertaining. I've actually thought about trying to write something comparing it to education or something like that. There's so much I learn from it every time I watch the movie or read the book.
Melissa Milner
That's such a great movie. I hope you write that article or that essay about it. It's like my thing with Jaws. There's so many parallels in Jaws to teamwork and education and understanding each other's differences and still working together. And yeah, oh my gosh, so much. It's another whole podcast I could do about movies. But yeah, so Fight Club, wow, great choice. How can people reach you and check out the podcast?
Mike Earnshaw
So on Twitter, which is my main social media site, but Twitter and Instagram I have this exact same handle. It's @mikerearnshaw.You can also find on Twitter and Instagram @punkclassrooms. And then we have a website, punkrockclassrooms.com. But if you go to the Twitter, you'll be able to find everything else from there.
And yeah, I'm on Voxer. I think my Voxer handle is @punkrockprincipal, all one word. But some people say you've gotta search Mike Earnshaw, Michael Earnshaw. But there's a picture of me holding my skateboard on it if you want to find me on Voxer and throw some there. But you know, find me on Twitter and then DM me. And then we'll hook up on Voxer.
Melissa Milner 32:06
Thank you so much for taking-- I know you're very, very busy. And it took a while to actually get this interview done, because just the busy-ness. So I really appreciate you taking time out to talk to me.
Mike Earnshaw 32:17
I appreciate your flexibility and allowing me to get back on. So thank you. It was a great time. I loved it.
Melissa Milner 32:23
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I am sending a special thanks to Linda and Lester Fleishman, my mom and dad, for being so supportive. They are the voices you hear in the Zooming In soundbite. And my dad composed and performed the background music you are listening to right now. My intro music was "Upbeat Party" by Scott Holmes.
So what are you zooming in on? I would love to hear from you. My hope is that we all share what we are doing in the classroom in order to teach, remind, affirm and inspire each other. Thanks for listening. And that's a wrap!