Episode 23: The Teacher As Supportive Practitioner with Robyn Bratica
Make sure to check out Robyn’s guest blog post!
How you can reach Robyn:
Robyn’s Twitter account
Robyn’s email: robyn.bratica.phd@gmail.com
Transcript
(transcribed by kayla.r.fainer@gmail.com)
Melissa Milner 00:09
Hi, this is Melissa Milner. Welcome to The Teacher As... podcast. The goal of this weekly podcast is to help you explore your passions and learn from others in education and beyond to better your teaching. The Teacher As... will highlight uncommon parallels to teaching, as well as share practical ideas for the classroom.
In this episode, I interview Robyn Bratica. She is a former colleague and currently an Assistant Professor in the School of Psychology Department at William James College in Newton, Massachusetts. In this interview, Robyn shares her expertise in the area of social emotional learning, as well as talks about her passion for running and her devotion to her amazing daughter, Juliet. Enjoy The Teacher As... Supportive Practitioner.
Welcome, Robyn, to The Teacher As... I'm so psyched that you had time to talk with us.
Robyn Bratica 00:58
Thank you. I'm excited to be here.
Melissa Milner 01:00
So what do you want The Teacher As... listeners to know about you?
Robyn Bratica 01:03
Yeah, so right now, I'm working as an Assistant Professor in the School of Psychology. And I'm the Interim Program Director at William James College for our school psychology program. But before that, I was working in schools as a school psychologist, school adjustment counselor and special education team chair.
And so my passion is still around practice, training practitioners, working in the fields and especially focusing on social and emotional learning. I think especially now, given the state of being and everything with COVID, the more we can champion kids' social emotional learning, the better. So for listeners out there, hopefully you are all advocates for social emotional learning, too. And if not, maybe by the end of our discussion, you will be.
Melissa Milner 01:52
What are the top three things that a, let's say, classroom teacher could do to help with students' social emotional learning, especially in the time we're in right now?
Robyn Bratica 02:05
Yeah, no, I think that's a great question. So the first place I would start, and again, this is something that I would say at any time, but especially given right now, is almost doing a little bit of a mini self assessment. So as teachers, as educators, as just adults in the lives of children, where are we at right now? There are just so many unpredictable things happening. We've been forced to pivot and change continuously.
And so I think the first thing we can do, before we can even begin to think about the kids we're working with, is do a little bit of a self assessment. Know where am I at? And what are the things that I need for self care just to be managing the different emotions that I'm having at this time? So I would say the first thing is think about yourself, which, as adults, unfortunately is often the last thing we do. But it's the most important. Because if you can't help yourself, how are you going to help anyone else? So I would say that is number one.
Number two kind of goes along with that. So after you really kind of think to yourself, these are the things that are important to me, that I think are the skills that are necessary to have, begin to model them. So kids are going to learn best not by what you're saying necessarily, but by what you're doing. And so the different skills and competencies when we're teaching kids about being self aware and having self management, time management skills, things like that, how can you model them for the kids? So really being a champion of the different things that you want the kids to learn.
And then I would say the third piece of it is realize that these are not soft skills, right? So we talk about things like reading, writing, math. Those are all things that, of course, we need to explicitly be teaching in school. It's the same thing with social emotional learning competencies.
So not every child is going to come into the classroom having the same background of, how do you make a responsible decision? Or how do you work with another peer? So just keeping in mind that these are skills that our kids need to learn, just like anything else. So I think those would be the three takeaways I would hope folks can have.
Melissa Milner 04:12
Check yourself before you wreck yourself!
Robyn Bratica 04:14
Exactly. Or that saying, like you can't fill from an empty cup. It's the same type of thing. What can you do to be aware of yourself and even take care of yourself before working on it with others?
Melissa Milner 04:25
Cool. What does your job look like right now?
Robyn Bratica 04:28
So my official role right now, so I work at William James College as an Assistant Professor of the School Psychology department, and I'm the Interim Program Director. So right now while I'm in the Interim Program Director role, I'm not really doing much with school districts. But typically speaking in an average semester, I just have some school districts that I have contacts with.
And essentially when a school psychologist might be taking a medical leave or they just have an influx of evaluations, I still go into schools to do psychological evaluations with kids. Or sometimes districts will hire me to do professional development with mental health personnel. And then sometimes the parents will just hire me to come to a team meeting with them. So really, it's nice because I'm not working for a district. But I'm so infused with all of the different areas that school psychologists can be working with kids and families. So that's really wonderful.
But through the college, what's great is I'm working with all graduate students in school psychology. And so I'm training students to then work with Pre-K through 12 populations. So I really feel like I'm having even a bigger reach with children. Because each school psychologist I'm training will then see that many more students, which will then have such a greater impact. So yeah, I find a lot of fulfillment in what I'm doing now.
Melissa Milner 05:47
Do you have a passion that really helps you in your work?
Robyn Bratica 05:51
Yeah. So the running is amazing. And I will say, especially during COVID, it was such a nice thing for me to have. I would say I am a pretty competitive ultra marathoner. And so that certainly has helped me both in and out of my work in a variety of ways.
But it's nice to have something that is separate from my employment that I am passionate about. Clearly, it helps with my wellbeing, right? So I do mostly trail running. And so when the weight of the world is-- I feel like I have so many deadlines and different things I need to do, and I have contentious meetings coming up and what have you, there's nothing like completely unplugging and just running in the woods.
So I often, though we haven't done it as much lately, but pre-COVID, I had a group of friends that we would run Friday night. So it'd be like 8PM on a Friday night, completely dark with a headlamp running in the woods. And there was nothing better after a stressful week of work than just running in the dark with my friends, pretty silent in the woods. So certainly from like a stress relief standpoint, absolutely. But it also helps me to just conceptualize the size of things, right?
So sometimes I think professionally, personally, what have you, we'll have some type of situation that there might be a conflict or a problem or just a puzzle we're trying to figure out. And sometimes it can feel like it's unachievable. It's just too much. I have too much to do in this amount of time. And running has really helped me break it down.
So just, for example, a couple weeks ago, I ran my biggest race to date, which was 100 miles. If you look at 100 miles as like, I'm going to go run 100 miles today, that can crush your soul. But you have to look at it differently. I was talking to my training partner, and I said, today we're going to view this as five 20 mile segments. And so I didn't run 100 mile. I mean, I did. But what I did was I ran 20 miles five times. And so when I'm running, I'm thinking about work and things like that sometime.
But more so I'm able to take those skills. And then if I have a big work project-- so for example, as the program director, we had our accreditation site visit. And that was like a really big thing. We want to make sure we have accreditation. But I didn't look at it as, these are all the things that need to happen. It was, OK, this is the overall goal. How can I break that into smaller chun?
And so the way I'm viewing my running and tackling a huge goal in the ultra marathoning world, it's the exact same thing that I'm able to apply to my work. And I think I'd be able to do that maybe in any profession. But I think it is nice with education, because we're talking about different strategies that we can use with kids.
So I do it in my running. Then I do it in my work. And then suddenly, now I have a strategy I can teach my students, which then they can teach other students in K through 12. So it's really nice how it all goes together like that.
Melissa Milner 08:52
It is, the scaffolding and breaking down things, and that 100 mile-- oh my god. I'm sorry, I'm still in shock about 100 miles. But can you tell us the whole saga that happened when you had Juliet?
Robyn Bratica 09:09
Yeah, sure. So my daughter-- so I was working in Reading at the time when I was pregnant. And it was a pretty typical pregnancy until it wasn't. And so I was 23 weeks, 4 days, actually, when I went into labor. And like I said, the pregnancy was completely normal. And then it wasn't. So I went into early labor. They were able to keep me from delivering for two days so that she could get some steroids to help her lungs.
But essentially, she was born at 23 weeks, 6 days. And based on current medical laws essentially, 24 weeks is viability. So she was born one day before a baby's even really supposed to be able to live. Happy to say she's now a seven year old girl. So she's still here. She's still wonderful. But of course, being born that early, your body's not ready for the world yet, right? And so it's actually kind of fitting we're doing this today. Because today's actually World Prematurity Awareness Day.
Melissa Milner 10:08
Oh, wow!
Robyn Bratica 10:09
November 17th. And so she, like I said, was born. And what's a little hard or very hard is we still, seven years later, don't really know exactly why she was born early. But you know, at this point, she was. When a baby's born that early, there's different complicating factors. And for her, one of the worst things that happened was that she had a pretty significant brain bleed. That's something that we have had developmental challenges and different diagnoses throughout her life.
But she is in first grade. And it's interesting, too, being her mom. I am sure, and I try to be very mindful of this in my communications with her school district. But I know I'm that mom, who you see at an IEP meeting, and you're like, oh, it's this one. My daughter has, I think it's like a 35 page IEP. So it's very interesting for me, and I'm very open about everything with Juliet.
It's been kind of nice working-- so I teach currently on Zoom. So my students have actually gotten to meet her, because she's been home sometimes when I'm teaching. And I use her as a case example all the time in my classes. And it's really nice, because I'm able to give my students first hand accounts of what it's like to be not only a professional at these meetings, but what the parent point of view is, as well. And I really think that that is so helpful.
And I know, when I was a team chairperson in Milford, the experience of having a child with special needs myself, I felt like I could just relate to the parents so much better. I could understand the parents so much better. And it really made me understanding, of course, the district's point of view, but also really being able to professionally advocate for my students.
Because I went into it feeling like, I'm gonna argue for the best for my daughter 100% of the time. And professionally, I feel ethically obligated to do the same for any child I'm working with. And so that's really kind of what I asked myself was, would this be enough for Juliet? And if it wasn't, I would try to work with the school and the team to make sure that the kids were getting what I truly felt like they needed.
Melissa Milner 11:03
Oh, yeah. It's amazing to watch through Facebook the saga of this child. She is amazing.
Robyn Bratica 12:27
Thank you.
Melissa Milner 12:28
It's just fantastic. The videos, especially, are so much fun. And it's just very life affirming. And it's, I mean, obviously a testament to you. You really should publish some of the things you've written on Facebook. Teacher As... listeners, Robyn would write essay pieces about her daughter, and her, and whatever they were going through at that time. And they read like The New Yorker pieces.
Robyn Bratica 12:54
Thank you.
Melissa Milner 12:55
They're amazingly written. If you were to say to a teacher, if you're going to have special needs kids in your class, make sure to do blank. What would it be?
Robyn Bratica 13:05
Yeah, so I think, especially when we're talking about kids with different types of complex needs and multiple needs, I think the best thing a teacher can do is honestly as early as possible, ask for a parent meeting. And just say to the parent, listen, I can read this kid's file. I can do this, I can do that. And I'm happy, I'm so happy to have your son or daughter in my class. I'm getting to know them. But I want to understand how you view your child. I want to view your child like you do. And so in IEPs, that parent concern section, I feel like, is so important. Because that's the parent's voice. And so I know for me, teachers that have just asked me, describe Juliet to me. I just want to hear in your words how you describe your child. That means a lot. And I know that because-- we know. Our kid's one of like 20 or 25 or however many kids are in a class. And we completely understand that. And teachers have so much that they're responsible for. And I think parents really understand that. But especially when you have a child with multiple needs, just knowing that the teacher wants t-- even if they're not going to see the child the same way, because obviously it's not their child. But they want to understand what you see when you look at them. I think that's really powerful.
Melissa Milner 14:17
Yes, absolutely.
Robyn Bratica 14:18
And I think, too, something to just keep in mind, I think, for educators, again, profiles like Juliet's are probably not ones that are going to come across the desk every day. And she's in full inclusion. So she is one of however many students in a full inclusion setting. She does have a one to one aid. But I feel like when looking at-- and again, general education teachers, I completely realize you're not getting a child's entire file.
But I think if there's, for me at least when I'm looking at things, and this is something I tell my students, even if you just see that this kid has a really thick file already when they're in preschool, just even saying to the parents, just simple things like it seems like you've already gone through a lot with this child. Just something like that.
And I had some parents where I would be reading their report, and I would see a mention. I had one student, I remember specifically, that had a 10 month NICU stay. And I was working at the middle school at that time. And I said to the parents, I just want to comment. I saw that your child was in the NICU for 10 months. So I understand you've been advocating from day one. And they were kind of surprised I brought that up. But then were saying, nobody's ever really pointed that out before.
And so just little things like that that are so easy to gloss over, that's the parent's story. And having a child with complex needs is a traumatic experience for parents, too. So going back to that social emotional piece, if the parents aren't completely where they could be now you have people who have experienced trauma, parenting kids who have higher needs, which can just make the entire family system a little bit more difficult.
Especially with those families, what are the different ways that you're interacting with them? If there is a contentious parent communication, how do you get to the meaning behind that? Is there an adjustment counselor at the school involved? Things like that, just because, again, it's not the easiest thing to do to parent when you're experiencing trauma yourself.
And so just always kind of keeping that in mind, not just for kids of complex needs, but for any type of system and, I guess, anything that's happening in society that could be leading to parental trauma, right? Like right now, even with COVID, people losing family members, being nervous about them themselves, so I think that's always something that's hard to be thinking about as an educator. Especially when we talk about trauma sensitive schools and universal design, we're really thinking about working with the kids.
But I think the more we can also be thinking, well, what's going on in our communities? Are these things impacting parents, too, can just make better relations all around. And when teachers and parents are able to collaborate, I think that kids can just thrive so much easier.
Melissa Milner 17:04
Absolutely. In your work, what are you zooming in on right now?
[ZOOMING IN SOUNDBITE]
Robyn Bratica 17:13
Well, we're looking at moving towards the spring semester. So right now for my work, the focus is really trying to-- right now we're not sure if we're going to be in person or remote, so just kind of planning both ways. And just making sure that the needs of our students are met, that they're able to-- we want our students to be highly functioning and feeling good about the program so that they can go to their field sites and be helping kids.
And we still want to make sure, it's so important as school psychologists, that they gain all the skills and competencies necessary. And so really, as a graduate program, assuring that we're providing those experiences in a remote environment is paramount to what we're doing right now.
Melissa Milner 17:56
Yeah. Do you focus on testing and the actual counseling piece or just on the counseling?
Robyn Bratica 18:05
So I don't actually teach either the testing or the counseling classes. But as a program, we do. So there's 10 domains that school psychologists need to essentially have competence in. And so we have classes that focus on all of them. So I personally teach First Year Seminar. So our first year students who go out into the field, they go out to their practicum sites. And then they come back and have on campus supervision. So I'm an instructor for that.
And then I teach the Behavioral Assessment class. So I get to teach the students how to conduct an FBA and write a behavior plan. So those are the classes I'm specifically teaching in the spring. But yes, programmatically, we teach students how to do instructional assessment, cognitive assessment, social emotional assessment, counseling, consultation, group counseling, all different types of things.
Melissa Milner 18:53
Wow.
Robyn Bratica 18:54
Yep.
Melissa Milner 18:54
I had no idea it was that involved.
Robyn Bratica 18:56
Oh, yes. So it's a specialist program. So they receive a Master's degree after their first year. And then you can't practice, though, until you have the specialist degree, which at our program is a CAGS. So yeah, I believe it's a 66 credit curriculum that our students have to go through.
Melissa Milner 19:13
Is there any one quality that makes a good psychologist or school psychologist?
Robyn Bratica 19:19
Yes, I think there's many qualities. One of the qualities, and I laugh because I bring it up probably every week to my students, is flexibility. Right now with COVID, they've had to be so flexible. Things just are not how they expect it at all. So I would say flexibility is essential.
And patience. Kids are going to throw anything at you, especially when you're doing more counseling. But even when you're doing assessment, kids are unpredictable. And that's part of what makes them so fun, right? But at the same time, it keeps you on your toes. So I would say flexibility and patience, I think, for probably anyone working with children. For school psychologists, I think are very essential.
But also, I think the other thing that school psychologists really need is to be able to-- so with teachers, of course you want to be able to work with adults. But I feel like for school psychologists, it is so essential. Because being able to really develop collaborative relationships with other professionals is crucial. Because you're only going to see so many kid.
If you really want to make an impact, you do that by collaborating with teachers. And so as a school psychologist, if you can develop those partnerships with teachers where you're really working together as a team towards common goals, you are going to have such a greater impact and influence than if you're just a person in an office working on an island.
Melissa Milner 20:43
Yeah, that's a really good point. Are there any tips on when you're reporting that data to parents and teachers, like you said, when you're working with adults, how do you make it so that it's understandable, it's not overwhelming, and that it's really holistic about the child?
Robyn Bratica 21:03
Yeah. So I think the two things I would recommend, and this isn't-- special education teachers, they do the achievement testing, too. So it's very similar, as well. But I would say, try to avoid jargon. So if you had to go to graduate school to learn this word, you probably don't need to use it at a meeting.
And try to not focus on the scores, right? So you're talking about a child. You're talking about strengths and weaknesses. You have scores there to kind of supplement the discussion. And maybe if there's a question, you can clarify by giving an actual score. But you're talking about a child, not a score. So I want to know what this child really excels at. And I want to know what this child struggles at and then how I can predict that will play into the classroom.
So it's one thing to know that a child is struggling with things related to processing speed. And it's another thing to directly understand how that might be influencing reading fluency, right? So I think the more that you can just be saying, this is the child, these are their strengths and weaknesses, and these are the areas that might be impacted by that, I think goes a long way.
Because at the end of the day, that's what we're looking for, right? What do we expect to see in the classroom? And how can we make this child's experience better, regardless of the outcome? That's something, too. Even if a child's not eligible, there's a reason they were referred for evaluation, right? Somebody was concerned.
At a minimum, what are some different things just through general education that we could do as an intervention for this child? Because again, someone was concerned, and that's valid. So let's understand why there was a concern. Even if they don't qualify, what interventions can take place? Because at the end of the day, the goal is for every child to succeed.
Melissa Milner 22:42
So what is your favorite movie, and why?
Robyn Bratica 22:45
Okay, so can I have two? Or do you want me to pick one?
Melissa Milner 22:48
You can have two.
Robyn Bratica 22:50
All right, well, they're so different. So my favorite movie ever since I was like a teenager was the movie Empire Records. And I just like it, because I love music. And it's just so silly. And it's just kind of one of those-- as a kid growing up, I thought they were like the cool teenagers that worked at a record store. So that makes me think of being a kid and wanting to be like the cool older kids.
But a movie that I actually really like, which is funny because it doesn't seem to mesh with my personality, is The Departed. I think it's probably because Leonardo DiCaprio and Matt Damon are both in it. But I don't know. I really like anything Boston. So I don't know. I love that movie. I think it's such an intriguing story.
Melissa Milner 23:39
It is a very good story. Empire Records, wow. I don't think-- I know of the movie. I know Liv Tyler's in it.
Robyn Bratica 23:48
Yes!
Melissa Milner 23:49
I don't think I ever saw it.
Robyn Bratica 23:50
Yeah, well, I think now you have to.
Melissa Milner 23:52
I think I will have to see that. And of course, The Departed I saw. That's so good.
Robyn Bratica 23:56
Yes.
Melissa Milner 23:57
So how can people reach you if they want to learn more about what you do or?
Robyn Bratica 24:01
Yeah, absolutely. So the two easiest ways to reach me, email is always very easy. So it's just my name. It's robyn.bratica.phd@gmail.com. So that's you directly get a hold of me, that's fine.
But if you more wanted to passively contact me, kind of just see what different things I'm putting out there on social emotional learning, you can always follow me on Twitter. So I know a lot of people are on Twitter. And my handle is just @rbratica. So I would say those are probably the two easiest ways. And my Twitter is, I would say, about 80% education, social emotional learning, things of that nature, 15% running and then 5% bragging about Juliet.
Melissa Milner 24:47
That's awesome. I love that you have all of that in there.
Robyn Bratica 24:50
Yes, thank you.
Melissa Milner 24:52
Thank you so much, Robyn, for taking the time out to talk to me.
Robyn Bratica 24:55
No problem. Thank you for having me.
Melissa Milner 24:57
If you enjoyed this episode, and have not done so already, please hit the subscribe button for The Teacher As... podcast so you can get future episodes. I would love for you to leave a review and a rating, as well, if you have time. For my blog, transcripts of this episode and links to any resources mentioned, visit my website at www.theteacheras.com. You can reach me on Twitter and Instagram @melissabmilner. And I hope you check out The Teacher As... Facebook page for episode updates.
I am sending a special thanks to Linda and Lester Fleishman, my mom and dad, for being so supportive. They are the voices you hear in the Zooming In soundbite. And my dad composed and performed the background music you are listening to right now. My intro music was "Upbeat Party" by Scott Holmes.
So what are you zooming in on? I would love to hear from you. My hope is that we all share what we are doing in the classroom in order to teach, remind, affirm and inspire each other. Thanks for listening. And that's a wrap!