Episode 22: The Teacher As Grief Recovery Specialist with Donna Kim
How can you reach Donna:
Transcript
(transcribed by kayla.r.fainer@gmail.com)
Melissa Milner 00:09
Hi, this is Melissa Milner. Welcome to The Teacher As... podcast. The goal of this weekly podcast is to help you explore your passions and learn from others in education and beyond to better your teaching. The Teacher As... will highlight uncommon parallels to teaching, as well as share practical ideas for the classroom.
In this episode, I talk to Donna Kim. Donna is so multi-talented, and I just had no idea where to even start with this intro. Because she's done so many different things. So I went to her beautiful website, The Perfect Details, and I read her bio. And I'm gonna read a little bit of it to you right now, so you see that I'm not exaggerating about how talented and creative Donna is.
Donna Kim, owner of The Perfect Details has made a career of bringing her creative and artistic influences to bear across pursuits as varied as musical performance and education, wedding and event planning, graphic design and bespoke food and drink offerings. A double major in business and music at Hofstra University, she began her career in orchestral management and private piano instruction, and has been a member of the Boston Symphony Orchestra's Tanglewood Festival Chorus for over 25 years.
So that's just the beginning. It talks about her wedding planning and her business achievements. And at the end, it says, Donna balances her many talents with a keen sense of organization. She prides herself on her intuition, her honesty and on listening to what is not being said. Love it.
I know Donna because I went to high school with her. And she was, I would say, daily in my life. I was in the chorus and Donna accompanied, I would say, every single rehearsal we ever had. It felt that way at least. She was always there. She always did an amazing job. She took direction well from our choral teacher. And she just was a good friend and just amazing. We lost touch.
But a few years ago, we got onto Facebook and we friended each other. I contacted her originally to be part of my episodes about musicians. But as you will soon hear, her latest interest in studies sent us in a very different direction. Donna talks about being trained as a grief recovery specialist. It is fascinating. I hope you enjoy my interview with Donna Kim.
Welcome to The Teacher As..., Donna Kim.
Donna Kim 02:39
Thanks, Melissa. Thanks for having me.
Melissa Milner 02:41
What do you want The Teacher As... listeners to know about you?
Donna Kim 02:45
I think what would be great is that I have a very varied background. And I've done a lot of different things in my life and still hope to do more. But I think the core of what I do is to help people. I used to be a piano teacher and a vocal teacher. I did it privately. I've been an orchestra manager before that. And then I've recently been a wedding planner and am now shifting over into the world of grief counseling or grief recovery method and reiki.
Melissa Milner 03:19
Wow, that's a lot of things. And you bake.
Donna Kim 03:22
I bake. I bake for fun, and I love to do it. I think it's my stress reliever.
Melissa Milner 03:28
Yeah, I'm sure it helps people when they eat it.
Donna Kim 03:31
I'm sure it helps on some level. The sugar and the butter always help, right?
Melissa Milner 03:37
Absolutely. So why did you choose to get trained in the grief recovery method?
Donna Kim 03:42
So originally, I started working with reiki. And for people who don't know what reiki is, reiki is like a healing energy. And it's not a religion. It's not something you have to believe in to have it work for you. It's got great properties of knowing what you need. And I think one of the greatest things that we're discovering, that a lot of people are discovering, is that reiki can be done distantly.
So it used to be very hands on. And you used to want to be with a person and touch them. And now we're understanding that the way energy works, you don't have to be in the same room with the person. And the energy is still flowing. And we're still able to really connect with people online right now, which is really important as we're in this kind of period of isolation.
And through the reiki, I discovered the grief recovery method. And I actually discovered this back before Christmas time and signed up in January, not realizing where we would be in the world currently and how many people would be grieving. And I don't even know if people understand how many different kinds of grief there are. I mean, do you have a guess, Melissa, as to how many different kinds of grief there are?
Melissa Milner 04:58
10?
Donna Kim 05:00
Go higher times four plus two. So 42. Grief is any kind of change, right? So that is the loss of a parent, a sibling, a child, divorce. We are living in grief right now, because we're grieving the world that we had before, right?
So everybody is grieving on some level. And how that grief affects people, I mean, we know people that are grieving and that can't get out of it. And this grief recovery method is so great, because it's not a therapy per se. It's an educational program that helps you really unpack and let go of things that are holding you back to live your best life.
Melissa Milner 05:43
I know they're using the word grief. But it's dealing with the trauma that comes with that grief and change, I would assume.
Donna Kim 05:50
Yeah, I mean, I think the thing about grief is that grief doesn't have a timeline, right? Because we all know people, and we've seen people even on movies and on TV, that have been grieving and can't get out of this grief. And you always hear people saying things like, I can't believe they're still grieving, or you should be over this, or why are you still feeling like this.
And that's the funny thing about grief is that nobody knows how long it's going to affect a person. And to put a timeline on that is really hard. And I think that's part of what is important about the grief recovery method is that we're not looking to tell you it's time. We are waiting for you to tell us it's time to work and time to work through what you're feeling.
Melissa Milner 06:36
Sounds fascinating. It really does.
Donna Kim 06:40
It's an interesting method. It's fascinating. I'm surprised how many people don't know about it and how many people that do. The more that I've been learning about it-- I've only recently been trained as a specialist. And I just recently, literally last week, finished my training for online working one on one with people. So this is all still really new to me. But I'm really excited to be able to help people, especially in this time.
Melissa Milner 07:07
Right. And that it can be done online, that it's just as powerful, is fascinating, as well.
Donna Kim 07:11
Right. Typically, if you're working one on one with somebody in person, it's about an eight week class or course. And working online, you can do it in seven weeks. And you can even do it twice a week. So it's really great. You don't have to drive anywhere.
And for me, it's like, you're gonna be really emotional at certain points of this. And you don't have to leave your house. You can just have your moments in your house and kind of cry and have your box of tissues next to you. You don't have to worry about driving home. So I think, yeah, there's a lot of benefits.
Melissa Milner 07:43
I can already hear some of them. But what are some of the parallels that you see between the grief recovery method and education?
Donna Kim 07:52
The grief recovery method is actually an educational program. And the most exciting component of it right now is that they're about to launch an online teaching of people to deal with children that are dealing with loss. We're not dealing with the children directly. We're dealing with the parents and the teachers to help them deal with grief.
And look at all these kids right now. They're all dealing with grief. They haven't had normal classrooms, normal summer. They haven't gone to camp. And they're grieving. And they don't know to call it grief. But we, as adults, know what it is and can be guided to help them work through their grief, and to be productive, and to not be so traumatized by it.
Melissa Milner 08:34
Yeah, can you share some of the steps of this method?
Donna Kim 08:38
The method talks about different pieces of what we do to distract ourselves. So let's say we're in grief, and we don't want to deal with the grief. And we don't want to feel those feelings. So there's a term that they have, and it's called STERB, S-T-E-R-B. And STERBs are different kinds of habits that you have to avoid feeling what you feel.
So a STERB could be cleaning a room, right? Because you don't want to do, let's say, homework. Or you don't want to do a project. So then you just clean your room. I think for me, baking definitely was a STERB for a while, too. Because I would just bake for somebody instead of having to deal with a feeling or dealing with an emotion or something. So some people watch movies, some people binge watch. That's a STERB for sure if it's used to distract you from something else. So then it gets much deeper.
So I'm not gonna say it's an easy method. It's not for everybody, because you have to be willing to go deep. And part of what the specialist does before you sign up for the program is to help you understand that it's not all roses, you know? Just like life, there are some ups and downs. So you're really going to have to take some time to really go within.
There's homework every week that you have to do, that you share with your specialist. But if it's done right, it's a very private and it's a very protective environment to work in. And that's where people come out on the other side and feel like, OK, I know how to deal with this grief now within me. So everybody's different.
Melissa Milner 10:19
Right. You know, as I'm listening to you, I just wonder about the success rate. I don't know if there's information about that with parents, that they get the information from you. And they're working through it. And then they try to help their children.
Donna Kim 10:35
So there is a program that's available one on one of helping parents and teachers with children with loss. But to do it online is something-- it's a different little nuance that they're working on right now. So that program for us as specialists to take to help people online is launching this month.
But I think that's the challenge right now is that the grief recovery method has been done in person. And the online part is still relatively new. So there are a lot of specialists that are coming on board that are getting trained for the online part, so that we can help people. Because we don't know how long it's going to be before we can be with people and working with them one on one. So they're working on that component.
For me, the working with children with loss works with groups. So I could see that, for me, I would want to help people that are teachers and have some kind of Zoom group so that we could work together and educate them on how to deal with children. Because these children are going to be in different situations, coming back to school, maybe coming back to school, not coming back to school at all.
And then when things are finally in our new normal, where everybody is hopefully back in school, we don't know how long that's going to be. And we don't know the effects of how being isolated is going to affect them. I know for me, as a child, not having that socialization, I feel like that's going to be one of the most challenging things for you as a teacher, is that socialization.
Melissa Milner 12:08
Yes.
Donna Kim 12:09
More than education, right?
Melissa Milner 12:11
It's tough, because there's all the grief that you're talking about related to the pandemic. And then obviously, we've had kids that had a lot of trauma before this even happened. What if you have layers of trauma? Does this grief recovery method help for that?
Donna Kim 12:29
I would say so. Because it helps you address what's the most visible trauma or the trauma that's kind of the most forward. And then from there, you can unwind and do other pieces of the trauma. So it's like a piece of rope that's all twisted. So once you untwist one part, then the other parts will unravel a little bit easier.
Melissa Milner 12:52
So you're basing it on behaviors. If a kid says, I'm always playing video games, then you can think that's one of their STERB things?
Donna Kim 13:01
Oh, yeah. Great. You're already learning. So that makes me feel so proud for you. So yeah, that's definitely a STERB. That's definitely not dealing with reality and dealing with the present moment. We hear so much about that, staying in the present. And kids right now are not staying present. And they are all disappearing into their computers, into their phones. It's so easy to do that. And that's a definite STERB.
Melissa Milner 13:29
Interesting. And then the first thing I think of is stress eating and things like that. But I don't know if that's related.
Donna Kim 13:37
Oh, yeah, that's a definite STERB, too. So sometimes it's something specific, like eating something crunchy, right? Because I don't know, crunchy things can be more angry things. Like if you eat ice cream, it's soft, and it's smooth and it goes down quickly. But crunchy implies you've got like something to work through.
Melissa Milner 13:57
You're not an actual therapist counselor when you get this training, right?
Donna Kim 14:01
Correct. So I'm a specialist in an education program. And since I'm so new at this, I foresee that I would be working with therapists and with counselors with specific people, and that we would be able to refer each other, and that we would be working with the same kind of person. There are people that have been through therapy for years and years and years for their grief, and then come to the grief recovery method and are able to unwind things. And it's not that I'm saying that therapy is bad or anything like that.
But this is just a different method. And it's just a different way to help you look at your grief. And sometimes we need that. Sometimes doing things the same way over and over, as you know, that doesn't compute to all children. All children don't learn by you writing on a blackboard or on a whiteboard, whatever color board it is. Some children learn by listening, and some people learn by pictures. And so you've got to figure out different ways.
I think that's me as a wedding planner, as a music teacher, as all those things, that was one of my skills that I took. Is that I really learned how to listen. And I really tried to figure out the best way to communicate to my client, to the student. Because everybody processes it differently.
And I can see as a grief recovery method, specialist, that's the same thing. Some people are gonna respond better to having PowerPoint slides if I do those. Some people respond better if I talk to them. So there's different ways to get to different people. And that's why grief is kind of this monster in the closet. We don't really know what it looks like, and it looks different to everybody.
Melissa Milner 15:41
It's getting my mind going. So in this grief recovery method, what are you zooming in on right now?
[ZOOMING IN SOUNDBITE]
Donna Kim 15:50
I feel like, as specialists, everybody has a reason why they've come to the grief recovery method. My reason for coming to it wasn't necessarily because I experienced a loss of a parent or anything, thank goodness. It's not that. It was more of because I was working as a reiki person and as a reiki therapist. And I felt this calling that I needed to do something else.
And somehow I found out about this grief recovery method. And I thought, wow, that is the piece that I want to fill in. And that's what I want to be able to help people with.
And for me, that was key to be able to offer that piece. And then I saw immediately that my specialty would be with people in the military and also with children. Because I've always had an affinity with children. I've always, as a teacher, even as an orchestra manager, I feel like those are going to be my specialties. But that's going to kind unwind itself as I delve into this a little bit more.
Melissa Milner 16:47
And can you tell our listeners why the military?
Donna Kim 16:51
So my husband's in the Navy. We live right near Hanscom Air Force Base in Lexington, Massachusetts. And I feel like the military, they're protecting our country. And it's interesting up here in the Boston area, the military is not as strong a presence as if you go down into Washington DC or areas that are close to a very strong base.
But I feel like the military is forgotten. And these people go and serve our country. And they come back, and they're not always introduced the right way. My husband works in human resources for Comcast when he's not working for the military. And part of what he used to do was help the military assimilate back into the civilian world and help them with their skill set and find a job.
And we have a history in America of not really taking care of the neglected. And unfortunately, that happens with the military after they're finished with their service. Thank you, and you're off into the world. And there are resources for them. And I want to be able to offer another resource for military spouses, for the military that are coming back from deployment, for children that are part of military families. And so for me, that's an important piece to be able to offer.
Melissa Milner 18:08
That's very powerful. You'll be able to help a lot of people that way.
Donna Kim 18:13
I think so. I think people don't realize how many people they know in the military or what branch. I've learned, myself, because I didn't grow up in a military family or near a base. But it's fascinating how close knit that family is.
Melissa Milner 18:29
Yeah. Is there anything else you want to share about the grief recovery method before I go into a totally unrelated question?
Donna Kim 18:39
I think if you're listening to this and you're thinking, oh, I don't have grief, everybody has had some form of grief, some form of change or loss. And it affects people on different levels. And if you know somebody that is really grieving heavily right now, especially in this period of COVID, I would just say reach out. And just listen and be, as we say in the grief recovery method, be a heart with ears. Because I think we all need that right now.
Melissa Milner 19:11
That's a beautiful way of putting it. I might steal that and use it with my kids. All right, on a very lighter note, what is your favorite movie, and why?
Donna Kim 19:21
So I would say that my favorite movie that I would watch over and over and over is Moonstruck.
Melissa Milner 19:27
Oh.
Donna Kim 19:29
I know. I think because I'm a musician, I love the musical aspect. And I love that it has every kind of music. It has the kitschy Italian music, it has opera. It just encompasses everything. And I love New York City. And for me, especially now because we're not traveling, I love to watch that movie. Because New York City is really another character in that movie, isn't it?
Melissa Milner 19:53
Yes.
Donna Kim 19:54
The Metropolitan Opera, those crystal chandeliers. For me, I can remember being there. I was just there two years ago with one of my good friends, and we saw Carmen. And watching those chandeliers, I was like, it's like Moonstruck. It's like we're in the movie. Not really. But for me, I love the comedy, the timing of it. And you just get a little bit of everything in that movie.
Melissa Milner 20:17
And the snap out of it is like the grief recovery method. No, I'm just kidding.
Donna Kim 20:23
We would probably say it a little bit gentler.
Melissa Milner 20:27
Awesome. Donna, thank you so much for talking to me. How can people reach you if they want to learn more?
Donna Kim 20:32
That's a good question, because my website's not up yet. But I can be found at my current website, which is theperfectdetails.com. That's within an S. There's a contact page. You can definitely find me on there. And at some point, I will have things updated and rerouted to the correct place. But for now, if you want to find me there, there's a lot of nice pictures of baking and weddings and fun things as well. So it's a good place to lose yourself.
Melissa Milner 21:01
It's a beautiful site. And when I say you bake, you don't dabble. You do amazing-- They look professionally done. It's outrageous.
Donna Kim 21:11
Oh, thank you. I'm a perfectionist, if you can't tell. And for me, it's fun. It's a lot of fun to be able to bake and to bring it to somebody and bring them some joy.
Melissa Milner 21:23
Absolutely. Thank you again.
Donna Kim 21:25
You're welcome. Thanks, Melissa.
Melissa Milner 21:27
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I am sending a special thanks to Linda and Lester Fleishman, my mom and dad, for being so supportive. They are the voices you hear in the Zooming In soundbite. And my dad composed and performed the background music you are listening to right now. My intro music was "Upbeat Party" by Scott Holmes.
So what are you zooming in on? I would love to hear from you. My hope is that we all share what we are doing in the classroom in order to teach, remind, affirm and inspire each other. Thanks for listening. And that's a wrap!