Episode 24: The Teacher As Negotiator
Transcript:
(transcribed with otter.ai)
Melissa Milner 0:09
Hi, this is Melissa Milner. Welcome to The Teacher As... podcast. The goal of this weekly podcast is to help you explore your passions and learn from others in education and beyond to better your teaching. The Teacher As... podcast will highlight innovative practices and uncommon parallels in education. Hi, it's Melissa. Happy New Year. The majority of the episode you're about to hear was recorded last weekend before the attack on the Capitol. That is why I don't talk about it in the episode. After seeing what was happening at the Capitol, as an educator of fourth graders, I immediately jumped on social media to find some guidance about how to talk to my students about this horrific event. So I want to thank all the educators on Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook, who shared a plethora of resources. I was amazed at the discussion ideas, read aloud titles like brick by brick by Charles R. Smith, Jr., as well as resources for talking about racism, anti-Semitism, and a lot of the Instagram posts especially spoke about social emotional related resources. Because some of these students were probably watching it on the TV as it was happening, and that can lead to some trauma. I feel lucky also to work with a principal who supports her staff, and offered a zoom session before school the next morning to process the event, and brainstorm how to discuss the facts with our students. My principal also sent multiple resources by email during the day for us to use. So thank you. Events like this need to be discussed in the classroom, in an age appropriate way of course. No more silence. Please enjoy The Teacher As Negotiator.
In this episode, I'll be talking about the teacher as negotiator. Included in this episode will be clips from past episodes of The Teacher As... Season One. I'm enjoying my membership with Master Class, and it's providing me with so many ideas for The Teacher As... episodes. So when I was watching the master class with FBI hostage negotiator, Chris Voss, it got me wondering if there were parallels between negotiating skills and teaching skills. So I watched the whole masterclass, and I did a deep dive researching negotiation techniques in hostage situations, as well as in business. At first, I thought I couldn't make this parallel because negotiating can seem fake sometimes. And it can also seem like sneaky and not authentic. But as I was researching further, I kept in mind that educators would be doing these skills, coming from a place of true caring and compassion. And once I started using that lens, I saw some strong connections between negotiating and teaching. But for this episode, I'm just going to focus on building rapport and gaining trust. These techniques, when looking at them through an educators lens, are powerful and positive ways to authentically connect with our students. One thing Chris Voss talks about is tactical empathy. One way that you can have tactical empathy is by first making sure students understand what's expected of them, and that you're on their side, and that this is a safe place. So setting up how your classroom will work, involving your students in that. Setting norms for discussions and routines. Demonstrating an understanding of your students' position, and showing that you understand where they're coming from. I wanted to share with you a clip from season one, Episode Two of The Teacher As... It's The Teacher As Change Agent with Grant Hightower, and he really explains the importance of setting up that classroom safe place.
Grant Hightower 4:15
One of the things that I talk about quite frequently with adults who teach is you have to decentralize yourself from from your from conversations, right. So you have to understand that you don't have to be the person who knows everything. Sometimes a conversation that you're hosting, or that you're moderating in your classroom is an opportunity for you to learn as well. The reason why I tell people that is because you have to understand that that these kids are are thirsty and hungry for knowledge as well. But they don't always know how to respond to the emotions that they feel when these things are brought up. And so part of your job is to listen first and you don't have to be the authoritarian. It's okay to be vulnerable in your classroom, And I think that one of the things that educators get afraid of is losing control in a classroom environment. One of the things that you can do to some to help you maintain that is from the very beginning, let the kids know that this is their space, and that everybody needs to play their role in protecting that. That means making sure that the conversations stay within the walls of that you know of that classroom, making sure that people, right then set your norms, whatever those norms are.
Melissa Milner 5:19
So once you've set up that safe classroom space, students know where you're coming from. They know what's expected, and maybe they've had some say, in some of those routines, and procedures. Throughout that, hopefully you're building rapport and gaining trust. Teachers know that they need to build rapport and gain trust. So the fact that that was this huge piece of negotiating was was pretty interesting to me. There's so many different ways to build rapport. There's many different ways to gain a student's trust. This next short clip is from Melissa Steiger. She's a music teacher. She was in season one, Episode 15, entitled The Teacher As Music Educator. Enjoy this clip about how Melissa builds rapport with students.
Melissa Steiger 6:08
I think it's when kids that come in, and outright tell me music isn't their thing. And they don't like it. And then I find a way to get them to like it. I know I had a fifth grader this past year, come in in the fall, and tell me, you know, I really don't like music. I don't like recorder. It's like, okay, you know, that's fair, you don't have to like it. But he would come down and talk about Minecraft with me. And I would tell him how I would go into my son's Minecraft world. And my son would be building things. And I would go into Minecraft and just like, fill my son's house with parrots. And he thought it was the funniest thing on the face of the earth. And he would come down and ask me what weird stuff I did to my son in Minecraft that weekend. And he kept coming back. And I would use that as kind of like a segue to get him excited about being in my room. And then I could use that to kind of get him excited about music. And he ended up, because I was willing to put in the effort to talk to him about Minecraft and parrots and things, he'd give me the extra effort during recorder. And he ended up doing much, much better at actually like enjoying playing recorder this year, and came up and told me so and it was just it was like awesome. Like, hey, look, you're playing it. You don't need my help. Look, you're actually very, very good at this. And he, you know, like nodded in like, "Yeah, we're not gonna talk about this." But he knew and I knew, and he knew I knew. So, it was it made me like tear up a little bit like yes, gotcha. You know, but it was Minecraft and parrots.
Melissa Milner 8:08
It was Minecraft and parrots. I love that. It reminds me of Simon Pegg's quote. I love Simon Pegg. He's a great actor. He's a very talented screenwriter. He was in Shaun of the Dead. He's in the new Star Trek movies. Just very, very creative type. And he considers himself a geek. And this just reminded me because I know Melissa always said Melissa Steiger always says that she geeks out. And I absolutely do the same thing. And it makes a teacher very relatable when you geek out in front of students. So Simon Simon Pegg says being a geek is all about being honest about what you enjoy, and not being afraid to demonstrate that affection. It means never having to play it cool about how much you like something. It's basically a license to proudly emote on a somewhat childish level rather than behave like a supposed adult. Being a geek is extremely liberating. And I would add to Simon Pegg's quote that being a geek makes you really relatable to kids. And again, negotiating and navigating a classroom is really about building rapport with students. The other piece of this is that gaining trust. And I think the building rapport and gaining trust with teachers it sort of works together. But I have a clip from season one, Episode Three with Matt Paxton, The Teacher As Extreme Cleaning Specialist. Matt talks about how he has a very short window; he only has a week to work with the people that are hoarding and trying to build rapport, gain trust, and help them change habits in just a week. I want to share this short clip where Matt talks about that.
Matt Paxton 9:57
Humor is really important. It's one of the most important tool sets in my job. Because when you're that low down when you're at rock bottom, like sympathy and shame are not a tool set to bring somebody out. You know, rock bottom, you can only, you know, you got to go down there with them and hold their hand and walk out together.
Melissa Milner 10:16
That is an example of a short clip that says a lot. I think that of the entire Matt Paxton interview, that one snippet really stood out to me and really stayed with me, because our students may not be at rock bottom. But we have students dealing with trauma, we have students who don't believe that they can do better. And we need to show them that they can. You know, we do have to sort of negotiate with them, we have to sort of persuade and convince them that they can get better and they can improve. What I learned from Chris Voss was a couple of techniques that could help you with what Matt is talking about, getting your students getting them to talk it out, and get past it so that they can actually problem solve for themselves.
So one of the building rapport and gaining trust strategies is mirroring. And this is simply repeating the last two or three words that someone has said, and it causes them to think and elaborate on what they have said. Let me give a fictional example. All right, let's say a parent contacts me to let me know that their child has expressed feelings of frustration. She's overwhelmed with the amount of work she has to do and is feeling like she's getting behind. In this example, let's say that I, as the teacher do not agree. I feel that she's doing an amazing job. But she just works slowly and carefully. So I talk with the student one on one, and use mirroring to find out more. So here's how it might go.
I might say, "I hear that you are feeling frustrated and behind in your work, is that true?"
And the student might say, "Yes, I feel there's too much work and I work really slowly,"
Then I might say, "You work slowly?"
And she might say, "Yes, as you know, I'm a perfectionist. I care about my work and want to be and want to do the best job I can."
Then I say, "Best job you can?"
And she says, "Yes, when I rush, I make mistakes and don't get all my best ideas out. I like to sit and think for a bit before I do the actual work."
So, in this example, I've learned a lot about the students work ethic, and desire for quality over quantity, she feels heard by me, and maybe hadn't thought about why she felt overwhelmed. Now I'm in a place where I can help her to help herself and find a way to keep the quality and not feel overwhelmed by perfectionism, or by the perceived amount of work.
So, in conjunction with mirroring, there's another strategy called labeling. Labeling is a way to help the person think through their feelings. And basically you name what the person might be feeling. So, if we continue with the same scenario, I could say to the student, "It seems like you care a lot about your work."
And she might say, "Yes, I do. I want you to see how smart I am."
And then I might say, "So, what people think about you is important to you?"
And she might say, "Yes, I'm shy. And I'm not always able to put together my thoughts well when I'm talking, so I want my writing to show more about me."
So labeling along with mirroring helps the person feel heard, but also helps them think through their own feelings and motivations. So mirroring and labeling were just two takeaways from my research into Chris Voss' work as a hostage negotiator. As I reflected on them, I realized that I tend to do the labeling technique naturally. I think I've heard other colleagues do it. That whole, "You seem to be upset," kind of vibe. But I don't think I've really mirrored in the way that Voss teaches and I'm really anxious to try it out.
There are countless books that can help us with building rapport and gaining trust with students. I've picked three to share with you in this episode. The first one is The Playful Classroom: The Power of Play for All Ages, by Jed Dearybury and Julie Jones, PhD. On the back of the book, it states, our classrooms must be “meaningful, relevant, and fun.” There are so many chapters in this book about all the benefits of play.
Chapter 19 is a short chapter about students trust.
Part of it states:
Playful classrooms believe trust is crucial for strong relationships. Playful, hands-on learning creates moments that cultivate trust. Trust in the classroom will take learning exponentially far. And our reactions to failure can build trust across all stakeholders.
Later, in Chapter 22, the chapter is called, "Love First, Teach Second," the author's write,
"How do we really show children we care? How do we do this playfully in a way that doesn't come off as intrusive. This is not a complicated maxim. It means that we connect on a human level first and foremost. We recognize that our students come to us as people first, students second. We cannot teach them if we could not reach them. They will not be reached until they know we care. Community is the learning environment we create with our students. Relationships consider students humanity within the learning environment.
I highly recommend The Playful Classroom.
The next book I want to mention is Reclaiming Personalized Learning: A Pedagogy for Restoring Equity and Humanity in Our Classrooms by Paul Emerich France. I had the pleasure of interviewing Paul for The Teacher As... Podcast, and that interview will be available on January 24th. He has Section One which is Foundations. So Chapter One is Personalization Myths. Chapter Two is the First Dimension, Shaping the Collective Conscious. Chapter Three is the Second Dimension Leveraging Small Group interactions. Chapter Four is the Third Dimension Nurturing a Child's Internal Dialogue. And Section Two goes on to Pedagogy with Cultivating Awareness, Developing Agency and Autonomy, Designing Curriculum with a Flexible Frame, Humanizing Assessment, Humanizing Instruction to Personalize Learning. I mean, it goes on, then there's a whole section on Equity, A Sense of Belonging, Humanizing Technology Integration, and Justice. I, I'm obviously not going to be to be able to share all the gems from this book.
I just want to read this section on the Power of Asking Why. So this is a personal story of Paul's. So he was teaching with a co teacher named Kristen, and the student's name was Timothy.
I remember Timothy, a loving young boy who struggled with emotional awareness and regulation. He was constantly reaching out for validation and attention, generally through explosive, physical, emotional and defiant behaviors. While I generally assumed his defiance could be treated with clear consequences, Kristen saw nuance there that I didn't.
"I don't want to do my playlist right now," Timothy said one day, crossing his arms to finally with a furrowed brow. My blood pressure rose. My patience thinned, my experience told me he needed clearer boundaries, and that we couldn't let him get out of doing his work. My teacher armor went up and I planted my feet, so to speak, I braced for a meltdown, and an all out emotional war. Kristin, on the other hand, took a more vulnerable approach. One that I'm proud to say I now take more often than I used to.
"Why?" she asked, sitting next to him and moving herself into his downward gaze.
"I'm hungry," he said, "I didn't eat breakfast this morning."
Kristen immediately got Timothy a snack, and within minutes, he came back to life and got back to work.
And then later Paul says,
"At times, strategic compliance is the best we are going to get. Certainly there were moments when Timothy was authentically engaged during hands-on, exploratory tasks, such as the archeological dig Kristin created, or when we would get to build new creations with Legos. Inevitably, there were times when Timothy needed to be strategically compliant so he learned how to read, write and compute. This is for better or worse the way our world works. We live in a world defined by social norms, laws, and systems. To survive in these systems, strategic compliance is necessary, hopefully tempered by authentic engagement, joy, and a passion for something greater than oneself. Kristin intuitively understood this intricate balance between extrinsic and intrinsic motivation. And as a result, she was able to create a truly personal learning environment where all felt seen, heard and understood.”
I do believe in what I just read. But my ideal dream is that the educational system would be more open and not be so test driven, and get through this curriculum driven and be more student centered. Because I believe that's part of where the behavior comes from, is students need to be engaged and be investigating and have inquiry. And the system sometimes shuts that down for teachers. And that's a shame.
The last book I want to highlight is We Got This: Equity, Access, and the Quest to be Who Our Students Need Us To Be by Cornelius Minor. In Chapter One, Begin by Listening, Minor shares the importance of listening to build an understanding of what is important to your students, and then following up in your conversations and lessons. So I'm just going to read these really great steps that I absolutely love. So here are these steps.
"There are a few replicable steps to ensure that your lessons speak to what students say they need. Number one, listen to children. Notice when they express interest in a thing, even if it is not a thing that you understand or care about, it is important right now. You have to accept the reality that over the course of a school year, this will change, and you'll have to assign importance to something new. Number two, ask sincere, non judgmental questions to deepen your understanding of that thing. Kids can tell when your questioning is respectful, when it is dismissive, or when it's patronizing and voyeuristic. Simple utterances like, "Tell me more," or "Where can I go to learn more about that?" can be revolutionary. Asking, "Is there a kid in this class who is an expert that we could all learn from? And then doing a little bit of work to follow up on that questioning sends an equally powerful message that you are not the center of this classroom. Kids are. Number three, usually, they're interest in a thing fills a social need. Ask yourself, "Why are the kids into this? Is it simple fun or is it about belonging to a group? Does that thing help them to navigate something tricky, or achieve something cool?" Number four, teach with that need in mind by modeling the skill in the academic context. And then by showing how the skills acquired in your class transfer. How those skills help them to navigate the challenges in front of them right now. And Number five, give them multiple opportunities through assignments, projects, and conversations, to practice that thing in an academic context, and in the context of their own lives. Ideally, those two contexts intersect.”
So this is that idea of changing the system. This is about what the students are interested in, and about what the students need. This book plus Paul Solarz', student led classroom ideas in Learn Like a Pirate are reread by me for inspiration, and a reminder of why we're doing this. So I can't recommend these books enough, The Playful Classroom: The Power of Play for All Ages, and Reclaiming Personalized Learning: a Pedagogy for Restoring Equity and Humanity in Our Classrooms, and We Got This: Equity, Access, and the Quest To Be Who Our Students Need Us To Be. And a little asterisk, Learn Like a Pirate, Paul Solarz.
The other piece to this is working with parents and building rapport and trust. And so I wanted to share a quick clip from Robin Bratica. This is from Season One, Episode 23, entitled The Teacher As Supportive Practitioner.
Robyn Bratica 23:10
Especially when we're talking about kids, right, with different types of complex needs and multiple needs. I think the best thing a teacher can do is at honestly, as early as possible, ask for a parent meeting. And just say to the parent, listen, like, I can read this kid's file, I can do this, I can do that. And I'm happy, I'm so happy to have your son or daughter, my class, I'm getting to know them. But I want to understand how you view your child. I want to view your child like you do. And so in IEP s, you know, that parent concern section, I feel like it's so important, because that's the parents' voice. And so, you know, I know for me, teachers that have just asked me, "Describe Juliet to me, I just want to hear in your words, how you describe your child." That means a lot. And I know that you know, because we know that our kids one of like 20 or 25, or however many kids are in a class and we completely understand that and, you know, teachers have so much that they're responsible for and I think parents really understand that. But especially when you have a child with multiple needs, just knowing that the teacher wants even if they're not going to see the child the same way because obviously it's not their child, but they want to understand what you see when you look at them. I think that's really powerful.
Melissa Milner 24:23
I have been doing intake conferences at the beginning of the year with students for oh my gosh, for a lot of years. They are by far the most helpful insight into not only your students, but the parents of your students, what their hopes and dreams are for their child. And it makes a big difference to that before the school year has even started, parents see that you really care. You really want to learn about their child. And it's it's just a very important message to send. You shouldn't be doing intake conferences, because you want to get on the good side of parents. That's not, that's not really what it's about. It's really about just like Robin Bratica talks about, getting to know the child through the parents' eyes, and what their hopes and dreams are, that can't be stated too many times. Because if you are not understanding what the parents are looking for out of the school year with you, it's going to be a difficult year.
The other thing and intake conferences is setting up, you know, an understanding of reach out any time, the best way to reach me is. So intake conferences are really important. And then year long, open communication. If you're seeing a pattern with a child, or if there's a day where it's like, "Whoa, this child is really different today." Don't wait, shoot an email out, make a phone call. You would be surprised how, number one how appreciative parents are that you do that. But also, you'll find out, "Well, he didn't get that much sleep last night, or you know, he's really been nervous about the math test," or whatever it might be. So you get more information, which then allows you to continue to support the child, you know, sending that message that you're a team.
That's The Teacher As Negotiator. I hope you enjoyed the episode. I would love feedback. I always say that, but it's true. Feedback about different topics you'd like for me to talk about in these once a month deeper, The Teacher As... episodes. So, there's going to be some interviews this month. And there's going to be, if it works, we'll see how it goes, there's going to be a draft episode, which I'm really excited about. Thanks for listening.
If you enjoyed this episode, and have not done so already, please hit the subscribe button for The Teacher As... podcast so you can get future episodes. I would love for you to leave a review and a rating as well if you have time. For my blog, transcripts of this episode, and links to any resources mentioned, visit my website at www.theteacheras.com You can reach me on Twitter and Instagram @melissabmilner. And I hope you check out The Teacher As... Facebook page for episode updates. I am sending a special thanks to Linda and Lester Fleishman, my mom and dad, for being so supportive. They are the voices you hear in the Zooming In soundbite and my dad composed and performed the background music you are listening to right now. My Intro Music was Upbeat Party by Scott Holmes. So what are you zooming in on? I would love to hear from you. My hope is that we all share what we are doing in the classroom in order to teach, remind, affirm and inspire each other. Thanks for listening. And that's a wrap
Transcribed by https://otter.ai